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INTERVIEW : 'We Restored Order'



SOURCE : Myanmar Information - http://www.myanmar.com/

http://cnn.com/ASIANOW/asiaweek/interview/khin.nyunt/khinnyunt2.html

DECEMBER 17, 1999 VOL. 25 NO. 50

'We Restored Order' 

In a rare interview, strongman Khin Nyunt goes on the defensive 


Does it bother you that ASEAN has taken a battering since Myanmar
joined it in 1997?  

I don't believe your perception of ASEAN is universally shared. In
spite of dire predictions over the past two years by some people, the
group remains resilient and all the countries in the region are still
committed to its goals and ideals. You must remember what its basic
tenets are. It was established to increase cooperation, particularly
economic cooperation, among Southeast Asian nations. It can't, and
shouldn't, be viewed in the same way as the European Union or the
OSCE. At the recent Manila summit, its leaders talked about economic
resurgence. There is an air of quiet optimism. 

Optimism, maybe, but hasn't the admission of Myanmar harmed the
group's standing? 

For people to say that Myanmar's entry has negatively impacted on
ASEAN's image is wrong. We have actively participated in its
activities and our contributions are recognized by all the members.
For example, as well as other gatherings, two ministerial meetings --
one on transnational crime and one on labor affairs -- have been held
in Yangon this year. Please remember that an ASEAN without Myanmar
would not be an ASEAN in the true sense of the word. 

You remain opposed to any moves to re-evaluate the non-interference
principle? 

Yes, yes. The principle of non-interference in the internal affairs of
other member states is enshrined in the 1967 Bangkok Declaration,
which established ASEAN. It's also in the 1976 Treaty of Amity and
Cooperation, which is the basic agreement for all members. And it's a
basic principle of international law. To re-evaluate this concept now
would mean attacking the foundation of the association. If the
foundation is destroyed, the house itself can fall. That's why Myanmar
does not support attempts to tamper with this time-tested concept. 

So you disagree with Thai foreign minister Surin Pitsuwan and
Philippine foreign minister Domingo Siazon who want to change this? 

I have very good personal relations with both of these men and we
respect each other. You know, even in a family, each member can have
their own views. My understanding is that there is a general consensus
to continue to respect this principle of non-interference. 

Your present military government took over from Ne Win twelve years
ago. What have you achieved in that time and what do you hope to
achieve in the years ahead? 

To look into the future, you must know the present and understand the
past. In 1988, when the armed forces first assumed the responsibility
of governing Myanmar, the country was on the verge of disintegration.
Anarchy and chaos prevailed everywhere. Frankly, the machinery of
government had broken down completely and the economy was in a
shambles. Our first task was to restore peace and stability, law and
order. We did this within two years and the economy returned to
normal. 

If the country was disintegrating, you must agree that the policies of
U Ne Win were misguided, if not disastrous? 

It's not our policy to pass judgement on previous administrations. We
believe that whatever they did during their time, they tried to do it
with the interest of the nation at heart. At this time, the armed
ethnic groups that have made peace with the present government are
still holding onto their arms for their own protection in their
respective areas. Only after the emergence of a new constitution will
they give up their arms. It's not in the interest of the nation to
have all these groups retaining arms, and from the national security
point of view, you can appreciate how sensitive and dangerous it is.
There is no reason for us to want to prolong this kind of dangerous
situation. But because of necessity, we have to give appropriate time
for the process to evolve. As soldiers, we respect U Ne Win as the
person who nurtured the present armed forces. He has retired
completely from politics. There is no linkage between the previous
government and the present one. 

And you are saying the present one has set the country right after his
mistakes? 

I'm saying I hope that when people look back over the past twelve
years they'll recognize that we were able to restore peace and
stability. We have successfully invited 17 armed groups into the legal
fold. I hope people will acknowledge all these things we've done. 

What you've done to the economy has not been inspiring. 

Look, we transformed the economic system of Myanmar from a
centrally-planned socialist system to a market-oriented one. At the
same time, we carried out unprecedented infrastructural development
that has transformed the landscape of the country. And don't forget we
also led Myanmar out of isolation and into becoming a meaningful
member of ASEAN. 

But you've failed on the political front. 

That's not true. We have changed the political system from a one-party
state to a multi-party system. Please remember that it was only during
our time that political parties were allowed to be formed. We laid
down the foundation for the emergence of a democratic state -- in
keeping with the specific conditions of the country. 

But you're a military regime, there is no democracy. 

The military has no intention of holding onto power for a long time.
Once the new constitution has emerged, power will be transferred to a
constitutional government. This will happen a lot faster if the
negative elements inside the country would stop hindering the process
by trying to create unrest and by fomenting other conditions that
threaten the present stability and sound economic foundation of
Myanmar. Democracy would also come sooner rather than later if the
outside powers would stop applying undue and unwarranted
pressure and would stop imposing sanctions. 

You're suffering from what amounts to an economic blockade of
Myanmar. 

At the moment, it is only some Western countries that have regrettably
imposed sanctions and embargoes on us. If you examine the reasons why
they've done this, you'll find they're entirely concerned with our
domestic affairs. It's obvious that they're doing this to interfere in
our internal affairs. 

Aung San Suu Kyi told Asiaweek that sanctions "are not causing
hardship to the people of the country." Is this true? 

If there is no investment because of sanctions, it is the people who
suffer since there will be fewer jobs. If there is no development
assistance, it is the people who suffer since such assistance can
have a positive impact on their daily lives. If there are fewer
tourists, the people will have less income to improve their standard
of living. This is obvious to everyone. 

Will sanctions force you to change and become more democratic? 

Anybody, looking at this objectively, can see that sanctions are not
working.  Even in the U.S., many people are now admitting that
sanctions and such measures are counterproductive and wrong. If the
aim of these Western countries is to see democratization in Myanmar,
then the way they are going about it actually hinders Myanmar's path
to democracy. We just hope that these nations will realize their
mistake and instead of imposing sanctions will join with us to reach
the common goal faster. 

Is the desire to reach that goal the reason you invited World Bank
officials to return to Myanmar to discuss their recent report on your
country? 

Due to pressure from some big Western nations after 1988, the World
Bank stopped all assistance to us. But we have continued to cooperate
with it. And it's in that spirit that we invited the World Bank
mission in June and again [afterwards] to discuss their draft report.
Let me make it clear, the report is still in draft form. It contains
much wrong and out-of-date data. That has led to wrong analyses and we
look forward to discussing these points with World Bank officials. We
regret that the draft report, which is confidential, was deliberately
leaked to the press. 

In Manila, your Prime Minister, Senior General Than Shwe, met the
Japanese PM, Keizo Obuchi. Has Japan offered to resume aid if you
make concessions in the political arena? 

Talks between leaders are confidential and all I can say is that the
discussions were very open and friendly, and that as far as Myanmar is
concerned, we are satisfied with the way they went. 

You've said some Western nations adopt a very negative attitude to
your country 'because of their own political agenda.' What do you
mean? 

I'm sure these countries know their own political agenda and I don't
want to go into it in detail, because it's not our policy to attack
other states. However, we hope they'll look into the long-term
objectives -- rather than concentrating their efforts on furthering
the cause of one individual and her organization, instead of
the whole population of Myanmar. 

Surely it's the political impasse with Suu Kyi and the NLD that is
preventing progress in Myanmar? 

Your reference to a so-called political impasse is not correct. On our
part, we don't believe that there is any political stalemate or
whatever is being alleged in some quarters. There is peace and
stability, law and order in Myanmar. The people go about their daily
activities without fear or anxiety. We are still in the process of
building democracy. You know, we've allowed the political parties to
have as much freedom as possible under our existing laws. 

That isn't much. 

Our government's policy is to be as tolerant and as patient as
possible in our dealings with the political parties. 

Like arresting them, you mean? 

We've had to take legal action against people who've been inciting
unrest and instability. People who have broken laws and regulations.
But we're not repressing anyone or committing human rights abuses. For
example, all the NLD's women and youth members who had been called in
for discussions at our guest houses have now been permitted to go
home. 

Aren't 40 elected representatives still detained?  

I'm talking about NLD women and youth members. 

What about the MP-elects who are still in detention? 

Not in detention, in guest houses. Detention means committing an
offence and being put in prison, but that is not the case here. 

Surely detention means being detained, you can't go home. 

But these people, they can go back home. During the weekends and
holidays, they go back home. And they can have invited guests. They
are very happy when they stay in the guest houses. They can discuss
freely with our people.

What about reports of 800 to 1,000 political prisoners? 

Let me just put the record straight, there are no political prisoners
in our country. We do not put people into prison because of their
political beliefs. Even the people who are arrested, even in the very
beginning, when the situation was very bad, the number was not 800.
That is an exaggerated number. 

Some say it is even higher. 

No, it is very much less. Actually the people against whom we have to
take action, because of breaches of the law, they only number in tens.


What have these 'tens' done? 

You know, some people from the outside, particularly some people in
the Western media, they call them political prisoners. But actually,
we have detained them because they broke laws and regulations, so for
us, they are not political prisoners. Sometimes, we have visits from
US Congressmen, foreign parliamentarians and so on, who bring lists of
people who are of concern to them. Of course, we check the
people named on the list, and if there are sufficient grounds,
humanitarian reasons or advanced age, there are instances where we
have let them go. 

But why did you take them in to begin with? 

Look, the peace and stability that we've attained in our country is
still very fragile. That's why -- to protect the good situation now
existing in Myanmar, as well as to ensure a smooth transition to
democracy -- we must necessarily enforce certain rules and
regulations. Please remember, we are still in the process of building
a democracy. 

When can we expect to see it? 

Once the constitution is completed, the people will enjoy full
democratic rights under it. 

But when is it going to happen? People are getting cynical that you'll
ever finish it. 

There is a Myanmar saying that there will be a village at the end of
the road. We have no intention of prolonging the constitution process,
but we believe that it is better to be safe and sound rather than to
be precipitous. In the meantime, we cannot allow activities that will
cause unrest or disintegration of the country. But we are quite ready
to allow as much freedom as possible under our current
laws. 

Which isn't much -- the UN's Special Rapporteur on Human Rights,
Rajsoomer Lallah, castigated you for a litany of abuses, including
political repression. 

In fact, Mr Lallah's report was based mainly on information from
insurgents and from elements who oppose us. So naturally, this
information is biased and prejudiced against us. You may also ask
about Mr Lallah himself, because he has never been to Myanmar. To tell
you very openly, we are not entirely happy with the way he was chosen.
He was pushed onto us. If you are going to appoint a special
rapporteur, the least we hoped for was that there should have
been some discreet consultation with us. But that was not the case, we
were not consulted. So what we find is that he has not been to the
country and he has taken all the information from people who oppose
us. 

One element who opposes you is Suu Kyi. Will you ever allow her to be
the leader of your country? 

Okay, let me reply this way. If you look at the situation among the
people in Myanmar, she is getting less and less support. In fact,
there are very few people supporting her these days. More and more
people are supporting the government. And we find that, you know, even
among her own party members, even the hardcore members, they are
resigning from the party because they are dissatisfied at the way that
she is running the party. They are discontented with the policies
practised by the party. So her support is declining every day and
more and more people are supporting the government. 

Yet you still crackdown on her and even refuse to let her drive out of
Yangon? 

Her going out of Yangon is not an issue. However, there is a constant
threat of violence from some terrorist groups that could even endanger
Daw Aung San Suu Kyi's life. This we would not want to happen. So we
are requesting her to stay in Yangon for the time being. 

And you want her to disband the NLD's rump parliament? 

We can't permit things like this so-called Committee Representing
Parliament. They can unnecessarily derail the process of
democratization in the country. 

Why did you stop the new Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid
from meeting Suu Kyi during his recent visit to Yangon? 

To set you straight, there never was any official request for such a
meeting. Myanmar and Indonesia have had close and cordial relations
ever since the days of our struggle for independence. We continue to
respect and understand each other very well. 

Do you personally dislike Suu Kyi? 

We are soldiers and so consider ourselves as sons of [her father]
General Aung San, the founder of our armed forces. So we regard Daw
Aung San Suu Kyi as a younger sister. I have no personal animosity
against her and it is my earnest hope that she will change her totally
negative and confrontational attitude against us, which is also
negatively affecting the entire nation. 

There has been talk that the armed occupation of your embassy in
Bangkok was due to a lapse in intelligence and security, and that
since you are responsible for these matters, you may be sacked. 

This is another example of the kind of wild and ludicrous speculation
that is spread in some quarters. There have been so many rumors like
this that we have become immune and no longer pay any attention to
them. 

Why is Myanmar so unfriendly to the press, especially the foreign
media? 

I have nothing against a free press nor do I distrust the foreign
media. We are allowing more and more foreign journalists to visit the
country and to see the situation for themselves. They don't have to
agree with us or side with us on everything. We just hope that we'll
receive fair and objective reporting. As for myself, I get so many
requests for interviews, but because of my very heavy schedule, I'm
not able to grant them frequently. So I usually delegate this duty
to my foreign minister U Win Aung and other ministers. 

Are you personally bothered by the unflattering coverage you get in
the foreign media? 

I'm not worried because I have a clear conscience that I am trying to
do my utmost for the good of the country. Those in the foreign media
who understand me as well as the people in my own country do, know
that these negative reports are not true and so they don't accept
them. But those who are against us will definitely make up such
negative stories to tarnish my image. 

Are you a rich man? 

I just earn the salary of a Lieutenant-General. I am not a rich man by
any means. I live a very humble and simple life.

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Mg Myanmar
A Myanmar citizen who loves Myanmar

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