TOTAL/PetroFina "Big Move" (r)

[xlo39@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I have nothing more to add to my two previous messages (which were both 
sent direct to you and to BurmaNet). I cannot decide whether the reason I 
find trying to reply to this message from you (and the second) so 
difficult is because your language is so rambling, irrational or extreme. 
However, I cannot pick out any particular points to reply to. It is not 
the sort of language I am used to dealing with.

With regard to your hatred of French history, politics, culture, social 
structure and business, I am left stunned and have absoluely no opinion 
on the matter.

I will let the readers of your two messages decide upon their content 
with regard to accuracy, moderation and rationality.



dawn star wrote:
> 
> Neil McDougall, i will try to respond to some of your comments below
> posted on the net, and not directly to me,so this post is also a
> response for the net, however, i encourage you to refrain from personal
> innuedos in net postings. first, no one is insulting the company from
> the sidelines, as you say, though, it would not be unjustified, only bad
> for arguement and debate, and no way to encourage a solution.
> 
>  I have entered the den of the lions and spoken twice directly with ceo
> thierry desmarest with hundreds of shareholders and I can tell  you that
> the lions lust for profits and dont give a damn for human rights except
> to make it look good for business. stability and profits are the
> dictator's promise to companies quick to ignore and deny human rights
> violaions while the world's human rights organisations persist to give
> proof after proof of their defiant denial of the truth.
> 
> just take a good look at the history of total. its nothing new.
> argentina, south africa, burma. why thierry desmarest will tell you as
> he does his shareholders how avant garde total was to be in south africa
> defying the apartheid boycott, and now there to do wonderful good for
> the people, you know, sort of a head start, we were there when the other
> companies wouldn't dare, a sort of inconscient bravado that total
> follows a higher creed than the rest of us. there is nothing "stupid" in
> the fact that more than ever, perhaps over a half, i dont have the
> figure handy, of the world's countries are dictatorships.
> 
> you are taking hook, line and sinker, the total company line, for long
> term profits, justifying the enormous exploration and development costs.
> very good for business, but very bad business in burma, where companies
> that go in, do so, because they do not
> have any ethics about bad business. money, only money, and competition
> for growth and capital, and shareholder profits. "dictatorships are
> inherently unstable". tell that to saddam hussein. the cia might tell
> you another story or the nigerian clan, or the majority of the world's
> governments where one clique replaces another, military, or
> authoritarian. but the worldwide total boycott campaign may help to
> illuminate some of your interest in democracies, development and
> dictatorship.
> 
> there is no prejudice against what you say "all companies and the
> capitalist system for some political reason". what total is doing in
> burma is wrong. what they do elsewhere, if it violates standards for
> international human rights, is also wrong and should be
> sanctioned. otherwise, whatever is their business, they are free to do
> as they please, within as you say, an internationally acceptable legal
> framework.
> 
> instead of talking about the complex intricacies of international
> investment, you may better see undestand the serious enormity of the
> total investment as it supports the illegitimate criminial military
> regime for what it is and what it is doing to set
> development back generations in burma, while the regime virtallly
> annihilates a national
> population today. so pleases save your praise for long term investments
> to countries and companies that do not try to get away with murder today
> in the name of that dearly beloved and most after 40 percent.
> 
> i agree with you Neil, lets stick to the facts, so please, go ahead,
> contact Total, and get some more facts. That's what I have been doing
> for four years now. And finally,
> the french parliamentarians and deputies here and in europe, as with the
> recent july resolution in brussels, sanctioned Total, and Premier in the
> UK, to freeze and desist from further investments.
> 
> As did the Socialist International at the November geneva meeting.
> 
> Politics, Neil, should not be the issue here. Ethical investment for
> development, to build institutions for democracy are essential or there
> can be no democracy, without development. But the kind of development
> that investment by Total and its fellowship of dictator-loving
> companies, against the people striving for freedom and peace, in burma,
> with law and justice protected and defended by genuinely democratic
> institutions for the political and judicial process is no longer, and
> perhaps one day will no longer be
> permitted. Meanwhile, the deception and propaganda media campaigns of
> the kind Total has mastered, with generals driven through paris in
> government police and protected motorcades, will not be tolerated, as
> the burden of proof of forced labor, drug-profits, human rights
> violations, violations of internationally accepted democratic political
> processes, torture, harsh imprisonment, etc and other condemnable crimes
> against humanity close down these businesses abetting and promoting
> dictatorship hand in hand
> with the unelected brutal tyrants that make a mockery out of your humble
> embrace of the brighter side of business where profits and investments
> improve the standard of living and give every man woman and child a
> better, decent life protecting the dignity of all of us.
> 
> re cuba, and even-handed criticism, i was referring to the iran-cuban
> us/french
> battle over sanctions. the french do business without sanctions in cuba.
> they defied sanctions in iran. apart from that cuba, as a dictatorship,
> has very little incommon with burma, but it would be interesting to know
> if fidel castro ever visited rangoon.
> 
> you should also try to understand something about the french political
> climate, and french corporate history. france does not have the
> powerful, independent capitalist
> corporate history as does the united states, or britain. they are this
> generation and during the past ten years going through privatization,
> denationalizing companies to the private sector, total and elf having
> grown out of state national and international policy managed by the
> elite technocrats who graduate out of the national elite schools, like
> ENA, or Polytechnique for the most part. To be brief, but just to shed
> some light on the matter of corruption, deceit and betrayal in french
> politics, just yesterday, in the national daily french newspaper,
> Liberation, once Mitterand's flagship, whose publisher Serge July was a
> Mitterand devotee, there is a full page back page story on Mitterand's
> shadowly, evasive banker, and intimate friend of Mitterand's former
> foreign minister and now leading national constitutional authority,
> Roland Dumas, himself under several indictments now. (Last week the
> headline news was over the scandal of former Prime Minister Michel
> Rocard's book on Mitterand, revealing a darker side of a
> machiavellian prince) Well, this banker, Mitterand's private banker,
> once handed the Legion d'Honneur in 1985 by the then Prime Minister
> (under Mitterand in office for 14 years) Pierre Beregovoy(who later
> mysteriously killed, two bullets in the head, officially a suicide but
> insiders know better), this banker, who last called himself Jean-Pierre
> Francois (he has several names, several estates in several countries and
> Monoco) describes the french political class making up the french state.
> So I will end this response to your inquiry with his comment, a very
> powerful french insider, worth they say some 50 million dollars but who
> really knows, and privy to state secrets and the hidden lives of french
> political class: "Les hommes politiques? Des marionnettes au bout d'une
> ficelle, manipulées par les groupes industriels et financiers. La rance
> est une république bananière. Une campagne législative coûte au minimum
> 5 million de francs. Pas un homme politique sur cinquante ne les
> possède....."
> 
> Why don't you come to france and see for yourself. But you will have to
> live here a long while to understand the culture of money and politics
> here. Its nothing like in the US. Oh, the words are the same, more or
> less, a linguistic banality. Democracy means quite a different here. Why
> just this weekend Chirac was excusing dictatrships in Africa during the
> two day Paris African summitt, saying it was the order of the day and
> that it takes development to make democracy.....
> 
> Suu Kyi believes rather it takes democracy to make development and
> without it, there can be no real lasting development. Sure,
> dictatorships come and go, but like Pinochet in Franco-Spain, perhaps
> some day, Total will have its day in court.
> 
> dawn star
> 
> Neil McDougall wrote:
> >
> > How about trying dialogue with the company instead of just insulting it
> > from the sidelines? Also try not repeatedly to write stupid statements
> > such as 'companies would much rather do business with dictators than with
> > democratic governments'. Companies want do do long-term planning since
> > the return on capital investment is calculated over many years.
> > Dictatorships are inherently unstable and volatile and power can shift to
> > different hands by a simple military coup with other officers gaining the
> > upper hand. Well-established democracies are clearly more stable. Also
> > companies wish to operate within an established legal framework so that
> > their investments cannot just be appropriated i.e. they wish those in
> > power to be subject to the law and not just able to make it up as they go
> > along. Companies desire an independent judicial framework. Dictatorships
> > clearly see themselves as above the law. For these reasons, responsible
> > companies would much rather do business in countries with established
> > democratic governments than with dictatorships.
> >
> > Of course, there will always be a few rogue companies who will do
> > business in an unethical way and be tempted to sacrifice principle
> > and take higher risks by the promise of an exceptionally high return.
> >
> > If you, dawn star, are prejudiced against all companies and the
> > capitalist system in general for some political reason, you should say
> > so. If you are not, I suggest you stop making irresponsible accusations
> > about all companies (in previous postings) and stick to verifiable facts.
> > How can anyone trust the facts about Total you claim to be accurate when
> > at the same time you unjustifiably insult all companies?
> >
> > I don't know your political motivations, but I at least respect the fact
> > that you criticised trade with the Cuban dictatorship just as much as you
> > criticise trade with the Burmese regime. I may not share your views but
> > in this respect you are even-handed.
> >
> > dawn star wrote:
> > >
> > > so where do we go from here as Total expands through Belgium industrial
> > > territory to become even a bigger world energy giant? any comments?
> > >
> > > TOTAL MAKES BIG MOVE
> > >
> > > The London-based Financial Times business daily newspaper
> > > leads its December 1 front page with a top story in headlines
> > > "Total set for PetroFina takeover/ French oil group likely to announce
> > > move for Belgium rival" :
> > >
> > > "Total, France's second-biggest oil group,
> > > is expected to announce this morning the takeover of PetroFina, the
> > > Belgian oil group, as the wave of mergers sweeping through
> > > the oil sector set to continue...The emergence of Total as bidder for
> > > PetroFina (sic), one of Belgium's biggest industrial companies, came as
> > > a surprise
> > > after recent speculation on Elf Aquitaine, the other big French oil
> > > company.In the past, Thierry Desmarest, Total's chairman,
> > > has been lukewarm towards takeovers and mergers, noting
> > > that Total has one of the fastest-growing production
> > > profiles in the industry. But analysts said a tie-up with
> > > PetroFina would strengthen its European downstream presence,
> > > as well as enhance its overall international exploration
> > > effort, especially in the North Sea...."
> > >
> > > "Total is expected to announce a share-swap deal for PetroFina
> > > stakes held by Baron Albert Frere -- the secretive Belgian financier
> > > who controls 30 percent of PetroFina -- and by Belgian energy
> > > group Tractebel...It is also likely to leave Mr. Frere as one of the
> > > largest
> > > single shareholders of Total, a position he already holds in another
> > > French company, multi-utility group Suez Lyonnaise des Eaux."
> > >
> > > extracts reprinted from FT by dawn star
> > > EuroBurmaNet
> > > Worldwide Total Boycott
> > > euroburma.com