KHRG #98-05 Part 6/7 (Dooplaya)

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                STRENGTHENING THE GRIP ON DOOPLAYA

     Developments in the SPDC Occupation of Dooplaya District

      An Independent Report by the Karen Human Rights Group
               June 10, 1998     /     KHRG #98-05

[Some details blanked out or omitted for Internet distribution.]

*** PART 6 OF 7 - SEE OTHER POSTINGS FOR OTHER PARTS OF THIS REPORT ***

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                                   #5.
NAME:    "Saw Lah Htoo"      SEX: M   AGE: 24         Karen farmer
FAMILY:  Married, no children
ADDRESS: K--- village, Dooplaya District              INTERVIEWED: 22/2/98

["Saw Lah Htoo" fled his village during the 1997 SLORC offensive and 
now works in a shop in the Thai Karen border village of Ber Kler, 
immediately opposite a major SPDC Army base.]

Q:  Do you know the news from  Kyaikdon?
A:  Yes, I know.  I hear the news because the traders come and tell me.  
The Burmese are assessing the value of the land of everyone who lives in 
Kyaikdon.  Some plots cost 50,000 Kyats, and some cost 30,000 Kyats.  
On the expensive pieces of land, the roofs of the buildings must be zinc.  
Everyone has to buy their land back from the SPDC.  For example, if they 
appraise my land for 50,000 Kyats I must buy it from them for 50,000 
Kyats.

Q:  How much land do you get for 50,000 Kyats?
A:  I don't know the exact measurements, but it is just enough to build an 
ordinary house.

Q:  Do the people who stayed in  Kyaikdon and never fled also have to 
buy their own land back?
A:  Yes, they have to buy it.  People who never had land can also buy it
for 
the same price, so they are actually better off than the landowner, because

they didn't own the land before.  At K'Mah Kler, the SPDC came and took 
all of the betelnut and coconuts.  The villagers couldn't get any money for

it because the SPDC took it all.  They also took all the chickens.  If the 
villagers tried to stop them they showed them a knife or a gun.

Q:  Do the villagers have to do any forced labour?
A:  Yes, the Burmese force the villagers to do things.  The villagers have 
to give money to buy petrol and oil because the Burmese are building a 
road with machines but they say they have no petrol, so the villagers have 
to give them money to buy the petrol.  Villagers who don't have any 
money to give have to build the road.  They are improving the road from 
Kyaikdon to [Kya In] Seik Gyi.

Q:  Can the villagers in that area stay in their villages or are they
forced to 
move?
A:  The people in Kyaikdon do not need to move because their village is 
big.  But a woman just came a few days ago and told us that the Burmese 
forced them to move from Meh Naw Dah Hta  to Kwih Kler because there 
were only a few houses in her village, but she never moved.  She said, "I 
have my house here so I will stay here".  The others moved but she alone 
stayed behind.  The Burmese stole her hammock.

Q:  Do the people still stay in the villages just across the border here?
A:  Yes, there are villagers there.  The Burmese don't torture them but
they 
steal the villagers' chickens and other things.  They don't torture them 
because they are afraid that the villagers living near the border will run
to 
Thailand.

Q:  Where are the SPDC camps?
A:  They have a camp here at the border and another one at the old 
headquarters gate [near Kwih Kler, an hour away].  There are also camps 
at Meh Tharaw Kee and Ywa Plaw.  The Battalions are #545 and #62.

Q:  Can the villagers move around freely?
A:  They can go, but they need a movement paper.  They have to ask 
permission from the SPDC officers.  It depends on the officer.  If the 
villagers need to go somewhere for 5 days then they have to ask 
permission for 5 days.  Usually they can get passes for three days.  For
one 
pass they have to pay 50 Baht.  Villagers come here often from Kyaikdon, 
Saw Hta, Meh Dah Hta, Meh Dah Kee, Kwih Kler, Th'Ray Kee, and Kyaw 
Kee.  They come on passenger cars and on foot.

Q:  Can the villagers prepare their fields?
A:  No they can't, because they have to build the road and do other forced 
labour.  The Burmese have ordered them to work on the road to make it 
better and better.  Each person has to go to work for them for five days, 
then come back to his own work for two days.  You have to work very 
hard, because you only get 2 days to work for yourself and then you have 
to do 5 days' work for them.

Q:  Do you think more people will flee to Thailand?
A:  They couldn't survive there [in Burma] but they don't want to come 
here, firstly because they have their own land and possessions to think 
about, and secondly because the Thais don't allow them to come.  It's not 
easy for them to come.

One man who came here and went back home was caught by the Burmese 
and they tied him up, hung him in the air and then set a fire under him. 
He 
didn't die because he had good medicine.  Now he stays in Thay Pu Law 
Htwee.  People don't want to go back [to Burma].   I ask them why.  They 
say that they don't want to carry [as porters] anymore.  If people come 
here the SPDC collects tax from them [along the way].  If they stay there 
the SPDC tortures them and takes their things.  Some people stay there just

because the KPA tells them to stay, or because they decide to join KPA.  
The SPDC controls that group of people.  They created it as a new group.  
The KPA sent people here to Noh Po [refugee camp] and said that the 
SPDC calls us to go back because the SPDC will give us peace.  They said 
if we go back we will get peace for sure.  It is not for sure at all, and
they 
cannot get peace for us that way.

Now they want to get more KPA members.  They told people that if they 
become KPA they won't have to do anything, that if we become KPA the 
Burmese won't abuse us or use us for forced labour and we can stay freely. 

They said if you join they will mark your house and no one there will have 
to do forced labour.  Now they are gathering people and giving training.

Q:  Does the DKBA stay in this area?
A:  No, they don't stay here anymore because the KPA told them to leave.  
The KPA aren't afraid of the SPDC, the SPDC gave power to them so they 
think they can do everything, but one day the SPDC will take the guns 
back from them, I'm sure of it.  If all the people go back to Burma then
the 
SPDC will take back the guns from both the KPA and the DKBA.  They 
just want the KPA and DKBA to attack people in Thailand until everyone 
comes back, then they will take back all their weapons.  The KPA and 
DKBA don't like each other.

Q:  Do you think people can all go back to Dooplaya and live there 
peacefully soon?
A:  No.  We can't survive there.  People who live in Burma are not happy 
to stay, some say that if the KNU fights the SPDC then they will fight the 
SPDC too.  They should give people rights and democracy.  If there is no 
democracy we will be their slaves for ever.  Whatever they tell us to do we

must do, if they say not to move we must not move, if they say we must 
die then we die.  We cannot live like that.  We've been here for one year 
now.  When #44 Division came to our village we fled to escape and came 
here.  If the SPDC stays there forever then we will stay here forever.  We 
don't like our lives here but at least we have our lives.

Q:  What about here, you said that the Burmese came and took one 
grandmother's betelnut!
A:  The SPDC soldiers came and took betelnut from Ber Kler on the Thai 
side.  They climbed right up people's trees and took the fruit.  Then the 
headman told them not to come and steal like that so they didn't come 
again. [There is a major new SPDC Army base directly across the border 
from Ber Kler.  At the time of the interview SPDC soldiers in mufti were 
crossing the border and hanging around the village every day.]  They 
came and stole the betelnut, then they sold it to other people because they

have no money.  The Thai soldiers did nothing, they just said they 
wouldn't allow the SPDC to come anymore but the SPDC soldiers still 
come very often.  They come every day, they even come to my shop with 
pistols.  They wear simple clothes like ours but they come with pistols. 
It 
is the officers who carry the pistols.

Q:  What do the Thai soldiers do if they see the pistol?
A:  The Thais don't do anything because they are very afraid.

Q:  What do the SPDC soldiers usually buy here?
A:  They usually buy alcohol and clothes.  They come and sell charcoal 
and cattle.  If they get money they buy fish and chicken to eat.  It is the

Privates who burn the charcoal, because they have no money.  But the 
officers get their money from the villagers.  For example, if people come 
here to buy things they have to pay the officer 10,000 Kyats as tax. 
People 
who come to sell cattle have to give them 200 Baht for each cow.  Here 10 
Kyats is worth 1 1/2 Baht, but they usually pay in Baht.

Q:  Do the SPDC soldiers make much trouble here?
A:  When they come we have to be careful and watch them every second 
because they steal things, they steal from every shop if they get the
chance 
or if you're not looking for a moment.  When they come they carry bags, 
they ask to see something and while you're getting it they try to slip
other 
things into their bag.  They also try to steal money from people.  Their 
officer says nothing about it.  Two weeks ago one officer came to sell 
some charcoal, then he drank alcohol together with some villagers.  He 
wanted more to drink but the shopkeeper wouldn't give it to him, and he 
beat the shopkeeper.  Later the Ber Kler headman told him to go back.

Q:  Do you think the Burmese would like to capture Ber Kler?
A:  Yes, for sure.  People here are afraid.  There are [Thai] soldiers but 
they never say anything because they are too afraid.  Sometimes they drink 
with the Burmese officers.

Q:  I heard the Thai officers say that many more SPDC troops have come.  
Is it true?
A:  Yes it is true.  Two new Divisions came, and they also brought so 
much food that it should be enough for one year.  I don't know exactly how 
many soldiers came.

[Another man from Dooplaya, "Pa Lah", 35, married with 2 children, 
added the following:]

The SPDC said that if the KNU comes and shoots at them, they will attack 
and burn Noh Po [refugee camp].  They've said that many times now.  
Their officers say it to the villagers.  Also, all the Muslims around Saw 
Hta and Kyaikdon must become Buddhists, because if they don't the SPDC 
says they will kill them.  They already beat one foolish [mentally 
handicapped] Muslim man.  Many Muslims used to stay in Pa Klaw Nee 
village, near Kyaikdon, but now they've had to move.  They can stay near 
Kyaikdon, but they have to become Buddhist.  So now there are many 
Muslims pretending to be Buddhist.

[One month later on March 24th we interviewed shopkeeper "Saw Lah 
Htoo" again about new developments:]

A car was just destroyed by a bomb, just above Kwih Kler.  It happened 
this week, on Sunday [March 22nd].  It was a bomb buried in the ground 
[a vehicle mine laid along the road by the KNLA].  I don't know exactly 
whose bomb it was.  The car blew into two parts.  A child died and the 
driver was hurt in his chest.  The child was about 9 years old.  His
village 
was Taw Wah Law.

Q:  After that happened did the Burmese do anything?
A:  The Burmese  didn't do anything.  I didn't hear anything from the 
Burmese.  

Q:  Now do the villagers from Dooplaya still come and visit here in Ber 
Kler?
A:  The villagers still come to visit but it is very difficult for them to
get a 
pass, and now they can't come by car, they must come on foot.  I think 
maybe they are worried that bombs will explode and destroy the cars.  
Usually about 10 people come at a time, but not all from the same village. 

They come from villages such as Saw Hta, Meh Kwih, Kyaikdon and from 
the villages near the border.  

Q:  What news have the people from Kyaikdon brought this month?
A:  Now the people there must carry rations for the Burmese.  If a villager

has a vehicle he must use it to carry rations for the Burmese.  If the car
is 
destroyed by a bomb the Burmese won't do anything for him, he must take 
care of himself.

Q:  The car that was destroyed this week, was that a villager's car or the 
Army's car?
A:  It was a villager's car carrying rations for the Burmese.  Now the 
Burmese use the villagers' cars to transport their supplies because they 
think the KNLA will not shoot at the villagers' cars but they would shoot 
at the Army's cars.  [In the area the SPDC officers use villagers for 
transport, calculating that this will decrease the chance of landmine 
attack or ambush, that if the road is mined villagers will die instead of
his 
men, and also so that he can keep or sell off his fuel supplies for
personal 
profit.] 

Q:  Do the villagers have to help the Burmese every day?
A:  Yes, every day.  They have to do forced labour on road construction, 
one person from each house all the time, and the people who have cars 
must wait around to drive for the Burmese whenever they need them and 
wherever they need to go.  But these car owners must buy the petrol 
themselves.  The Burmese never buy the petrol for them.  

Q:  Do the villagers still have to work on the car road?
A:  They have to build the main roads and also rebuild the streets in 
Kyaikdon.  They have to improve the roads and streets, the Burmese are 
digging the earth with bulldozers in the betelnut plantations, they are 
destroying all the betelnut trees but they never pay anything to the 
villagers.  The villagers even have to buy the fuel for their bulldozer!  
They never buy their own fuel.

Q:  Last month you said all the villagers in Kyaikdon must buy their own 
land, is that still true?
A:  Yes, every villager had to buy their own land.  They each had to pay 
30,000 to 50,000 Kyats.  People had to sell their belongings to get the 
money to pay for their land.  And on land which is 50,000 Kyats [in the 
central part of the village] they ordered that the owners must put zinc 
roofing on their houses.  As for the betelnut plantations, if the owner
stays 
close by they can get the fruit, but if not then the KPA took all of it. 
They 
also demand taxes on all the crops.  The KPA took all the houses and 
crops of everyone who fled to Thailand, and they sold those houses.  The 
KPA are staying together with the Burmese.  The KPA are staying in K---.  
The Burmese are also staying there, but in their own camp.  They work 
together.

Q:  Does the KPA force anyone to become soldiers?
A:  Yes, two or three people from each village must go.  If people can't go

then they must give money to the KPA.  Now the KPA is doing training at 
Kwih Kalay, below Kyaikdon.  Just a few days ago we heard that some 
KPA soldiers already ran to escape the army.  The KPA is helping the 
Burmese.

Q:  How do they help the Burmese?
A:  They help them by  planning how to attack Noh Po [refugee camp].  
We heard that the KPA and the Burmese will go to attack Noh Po camp.  
Maybe they will go together.

Q:  Are there any DKBA  in the area of Kwih Kler, Saw Hta and 
Kyaikdon?
A:  No, there are no DKBA there.  All the DKBA  moved back to 7th 
Brigade area [Pa'an District, 100 km further north; the SPDC ordered the 
DKBA back after it gave authority over most of Dooplaya to the KPA].  

Q:  Do you think the Burmese will attack Noh Po?
A:  As I told you before, they are looking for a way to attack Noh Po.  The

Burmese told the villagers in Saw Hta that they will attack Noh Po.  
They've been telling them for a long time that Noh Po will be attacked.  
[Part of the reason for this may be to discourage Dooplaya villagers from 
fleeing to Thailand to stay in Noh Po.] 

Q:  Who will attack, the Burmese or the KPA?
A:  The method of the Burmese is that even if they attack, they will always

say it was the KPA or DKBA who did it.  They will never say it was the 
Burmese.  Even if KPA or DKBA won't go with them the Burmese will 
still say it was KPA or DKBA, because they will just mimic the DKBA or 
the KPA when they attack.

Q:  If they go to attack Noh Po, do you think they will make problems for 
Ber Kler villagers along the way?  [Ber Kler is over 10 km from Noh Po, 
but it is along one possible attack route.]
A:  They probably won't make problems for the Ber Kler villagers.  But 
last month they told us that if we shelter any refugees from Noh Po or 
KNLA soldiers then they will shoot at Ber Kler.  They also said that if
they 
know any KNLA are coming to Ber Kler they will kill them here.

Q:  How can they attack Noh Po if the Thai soldiers stop them?
A:  We can't trust in Thai soldiers.  They do not dare to shoot.  They will

never shoot, even when their duty is to shoot.

Q:  Now do Burmese soldiers still come to Ber Kler village?
A:  Yes, they come every day.  They still come to buy food.  The Thais 
[soldiers and Border Patrol Police] don't dare to say anything against 
them.  They're always watching when they come to do shopping.  I see 
their Corporals and Sergeants coming with them and observing the 
situation.  Last month I saw pistols on their waists every time they came. 

The day before yesterday one of the Thai villagers here left a gun in the 
back of his truck, and a Burmese soldier stole it.  I'm not sure what, I
think 
it was a pistol.  Then the gun owner told the headman, they went to ask for

the gun and they got it back.

Q:  Now there are Thai soldiers everywhere near here and they say they 
will fight the Burmese if they cross into Thailand.  Are the Thais in the 
village here Army or Border Patrol Police?
A:  They are border police.  They just sit at their gate which is by the 
border.  They don't dare go into the forest.  They're even afraid to stay
here 
in the village!  They're not brave. 

Q:  Do the villagers who come here from Kwih Kler, Saw Hta and 
Kyaikdon still want to stay in their villages, or do they want to flee to 
Thailand?
A:  They love to live in their own villages.  It is not easy for them to
flee to 
Thailand.  The problem if they come here is that the Thais will drive them 
back to Burma.  The Thais already drove many of them back once when 
they came last time.  So although they must live as slaves in Burma and 
they don't like to live like that, they must live that way.  But if the
KNLA 
go to their places to fight the Burmese, they will still help the KNLA to 
shoot the Burmese.  That is what they keep in their minds and in their 
hearts.  They really hate the Burmese, and they can't live their lives in 
either Thailand or Burma.  So if the KNLA go to fight many of them will 
stand up to fight too.  But if the KNLA don't go to help them they don't 
dare do anything by themselves, because the Burmese will kill them.  

Last month my sister came and told us that a Burmese soldier came into 
the movies.  He touched a girl's chin and the girl slapped him.  Then he 
slapped the girl who slapped him.  Afterwards he was sent to the 
commander to be punished.  And in a shop in Saw Hta a Burmese 
Corporal stole a longyi [sarong] when the shopkeeper wasn't looking and 
ran away with it.  The shopkeeper sent her child to go and get it back but 
the child couldn't get it, so his mother went to the Corporal and shouted
at 
him, and only then she got it back.  They do bad things.  Now they are 
logging around Saw Hta, sawing the logs into timber and sending them to 
the towns to sell.  The villagers have to do that for them, and the
villagers 
have to press sugar cane for them when they want to drink it.  Many 
villagers have to go and do that.  Everyone is afraid of them and dares not

say anything.  When they order the villagers to give them chickens and the 
villagers don't agree, they point at the villagers with guns or knives. 
They 
always threaten the villagers like that.  

Even when we were in our house [just after the occupation, before they 
fled] they came to our house and demanded chickens. We let them take 
what they wanted, but when their Sergeant came with a big truck he saw 
our coconuts and took the coconuts without asking permission.  Then he 
went and took his soldiers' gun and shot at the coconuts [in the tree] to 
destroy them.  They never ask for anything nicely, and if you speak they 
tell you, "You are very clever to speak, so I will kill you".  They
threatened 
people and said, "Now you are in our hands.  If we decide to kill you, you 
can't do anything."  They oppressed us until we couldn't stand it anymore, 
so we came here.  If we could stand it we would still live there.  If the 
Burmese live there forever we will live here forever, here in Ber Kler, we 
won't go back.  We don't want to go back before there is peace in Burma, 
but we will go back when there is peace, when Burma becomes a 
democratic country.
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