KHRG #98-04 Part 7/7 (Camp attacks)

[khrg@xxxxxxxxx]

                    ATTACKS ON KAREN REFUGEE CAMPS: 1998

           An Independent Report by the Karen Human Rights Group
                     May 29, 1998     /     KHRG #98-04

  *** PART 7 OF 7; SEE OTHER POSTINGS FOR OTHER PARTS OF THIS REPORT ***

__________________________________________________________________________
                                #M9.
NAME:    "U Than Myint"    SEX: M   AGE: 47   Karen Buddhist farmer
FAMILY:  Married, 4 children aged 20-23       INTERVIEWED: 28/3/98 
ADDRESS: Hlaing Bwe township; now in Section 6 of Maw Ker refugee camp

Q:  Can you tell me what happened that night?
A:  They entered, fired their guns and burned down the houses.  When 
they came I didn't know it, we just heard the explosions at 1:15 a.m. on
the 
23rd of March.  The shells landed nearby and we all woke up.  At first I 
thought that the Thai soldiers had fired something.  I kept listening.  I
was 
not running yet.  I had to find my family.

The soldiers came straight to the Monastery.  They came straight and they 
shouted, "Go on, go on!" and they set fires.  Women and children were 
hiding in the bunkers.  I saw the fire and the soldiers calling, "Go on, go

on, go on!"  I heard one soldier who was holding a walkie-talkie.  He said 
in Karen language, "Don't fire the gun, don't fire the gun", but his
friends 
fired.  One soldier was shouting in Burmese, "Nga lo ma tha!!  We are in 
front of you, why are you firing the gun at us?" ['Nga lo ma tha' is 
Burmese for 'Motherfucker'.]  When the soldiers went to one place, the 
other soldiers shot at that place.  If it was me I would be angry against
the 
Burmese soldiers [who were firing from behind].  I would have turned my 
gun against them and shot at them.  I heard one soldier speaking Pwo 
Karen.  I thought he must be DKBA and I dared not go out.

First they fired big weapons and then they fired small guns.  After they 
were shooting for about ten minutes we couldn't see them anymore.   They 
went to section seven and I didn't see which way they were going out of 
the camp.  They burned down the monastery as they were on their way out.  
I don't know how they burned it, you'd have to ask the monks.  They didn't 
burn the community hall [a community hall for religious use, associated 
with the monastery], but when they fired heavy weapons the shells hit it 
and burned it.  They didn't burn all the houses, they only  burned some 
houses and then the fire spread to all the houses.  I saw four of them, and

the others were over there.  I saw them when the fire started.  Some were 
DKBA and some were Burmese.  The Burmese soldiers were shooting 
guns and the DKBA burned the houses.  I could not stay for long, the fire 
was too hot.

Q:  What language did they speak?
A:  They spoke Karen language, not Burmese.  The soldiers who spoke 
Burmese stayed behind the monastery.  They were the ones who were 
shelling with heavy weapons.  It was mostly Burmese soldiers shooting the 
heavy weapons, two mortars and M79 [grenades].

I saw four soldiers coming this way and the others were over there; they 
were not too young.  The ones who came over here were carrying guns, 
and one soldier was carrying a big bag.  One soldier didn't have a gun and 
the other three soldiers were holding guns; AK[47], [M]16.  They were 
wearing military uniforms.  I also saw one soldier with a yellow scarf but
I 
didn't see their hats.  Some soldiers were wearing a plain uniform and one 
soldier was wearing a camouflage uniform.  The soldier who wore the 
camouflage uniform said, "Don't touch me, don't touch me!"  I dared not 
touch him.  He was holding a gun.  He thought that I would hit him.    

They shot at my house.  They shot six times or seven times.  I saw pieces 
of shells.  When they shot at my house, I looked out the top of the bunker 
and I looked at them.  They looked down into the bunker before they 
burned down my house, and they asked, "Are you a villager or what?"  I 
said, "Yes I am a villager, we are not soldiers".  They didn't ask me my 
religion, they asked me, "Where is your village?"  I said "Paw Law Lay 
village, Hlaing Bwe township".  After that we ran away because we were 
afraid.  Then they burned my house down.

Q:  Did they look drunk or as if they had used medicines?
A:  I don't know, I dared not look.  They would shoot me if I looked 
directly at them.  I can't tell you.  When they burned the houses they were

shivering.  They were shaking, their legs were also shaking.  Maybe they 
were afraid.  When they heard the bombs they sat down on the ground.  
What were they afraid of?  The KNU is not in the camp!

Q:  Could you save any of your things?
A:  I dared not carry anything, I dared not go into the house.  My pots, 
plates and clothes, everything burned.  Now I have only the clothes on my 
body.

Q:  Did they ask for the Muslims?
A:  The DKBA asked us: "Where is the Muslims' section?"  They asked 
but they never arrived there.  When the fire was blazing they left the
camp, 
they didn't dare to stay.  They were worried that someone would shoot at 
them.  After they had been gone for quite a while, the Thai soldiers
started 
to fire their guns.  They fired their guns in the morning, before sunrise. 

They fired four shells at the same time.  One shell landed near where the 
Burmese soldiers stay, near Wah Lay monastery [Wah Lay on the Burma 
side of the border, not in the refugee camp], and another shell landed in 
the Thai village.

We got out of the bunker when the people put out the fire.  It was about 
half past two a.m.  Then the Thai soldiers came.  The fire trucks came just

before sunrise; when the Thai soldiers and the fire trucks came to the camp

it was already half past four in the morning and the fire was already put 
out.  Fifty houses were burned down in the camp:  five houses in Section 7 
and forty-five houses in Section 6.  Including the monastery and the hall
it 
would be fifty-two.  Altogether there are over 300 houses in Section 6.

Q:  Do you think that they will come again?
A:  I can't tell, I didn't hear anything.  But since that happened, we run 
away to sleep [outside the camp] every night.

Q:  Do the Thai soldiers still come?
A:  Yes, they come to arrange security for us.  Now they stay behind the 
monastery.  Yesterday they came to hold a meeting.  They didn't call all 
the villagers, they called only the men.  They said, "Do you dare to shoot 
the Burmese?"  The villagers answered, "Yes, we dare.  If you call us [to 
fight], many people will go."  They asked how many people have been 
soldiers and the ones who have been soldiers before stood up.  Then they 
asked, "How many people can speak Thai?"  The villagers who could 
speak Thai stood up.  Then, "How many Buddhists, Christians, and 
Muslims are in the camp?"  After that they told us, "Don't be afraid.  You 
must live peacefully.  You must join with the Thai.  If we ask you for your

support, you must give us your support." We promised to help them.  They 
asked another question: "If you had guns, would you dare to shoot the 
enemy?"  We said, "We dare to shoot".  I didn't hear them say that they 
would give us guns, but they told us that we must obey the Thais because 
we are in Thailand.  They said, "Don't be afraid, but you have to be 
careful, you have to dig a good bunker."  I didn't hear that we have to 
move, but they were speaking in Thai so I couldn't understand everything.


Q:  How long have you been in this camp?
A:  Not even one year.  It will be one year this Water Festival [mid-April 
1998].  We couldn't stay in our village, because we were afraid of 
Burmese soldiers and sometimes of DKBA too.  I had to go portering and 
sometimes I had to go as forced labour.  I had to go portering for three 
days at a time, and if I couldn't go we had to pay 1,000 Kyats.  We had a 
lot of difficulty finding 1,000 Kyats.  And forced labour!  I had to build
the 
road all the time.  We had to build the road very far from my village in 
Pa'an district, in Zar Tha Bhin.  We started to build the road from Hlaing 
Bwe to Pa'an, and all the other roads too.  We had to take food for 
ourselves.  The DKBA forced us to work for the Burmese.  The Burmese 
commanded the DKBA to do it, and then the DKBA forced us to work.  
When we stay in our village the Burmese and the DKBA force us to work.  
Now when we stay in the camp, they burn my house.  Will our lives 
always be like this?  I don't know.
___________________________________________________________________________
                            #M10.
NAME:    "Pu Lay Ko"   SEX: M   AGE: 59         Karen
FAMILY:  Married, 6 children aged 16-30         INTERVIEWED: 28/3/98 
ADDRESS: Hlaing Bwe township; now in Section 6 of Maw Ker refugee camp

Q:  Can you tell me what happened that night?
A:  The soldiers came to the camp at 1:15 a.m.  I was staying in the house.
 
At that time we were already asleep.  I have six children, but that night 
only three of us were at home because my other children had gone to M--- 
with my wife.  I was sleeping in one room with my two daughters and a 
friend was sleeping in the other room with her daughter.  There were a lot 
of explosions but at first we didn't wake up.  We woke up when a shell 
landed in the toilets.  When I heard that they were shooting I jumped down 
from the house.  My daughters are old enough to run by themselves, but I 
couldn't carry my belongings.  Then we stayed in the bunker.  After we had 
been in the bunker for a while, my daughter told me, "Our house is 
burning".  I lifted up my head [above the lip of the bunker], looked
outside 
and saw that they were burning my house.  I wanted to go back home to 
get my belongings, but my daughters pulled me back because the house 
was already burning, so I went back into the bunker.  I couldn't save 
anything.  We just looked at the house burning. 

I didn't see the soldiers who burned our house.  I thought that they must 
have gone to burn other houses, so we stayed in the bunker.  They went 
straight over that way, and then they went back at about 2:30 a.m.
His daughter:  Pa, you stayed in the bunker and you didn't see, why are 
you talking as though you had seen everything?
"Pu Lay Ko":  I'm just guessing.  I dared not look.  I didn't see when they

were leaving.  I don't know which way they went back.  I stayed with my 
daughters.  I can't guess.

Q:  Did you hear them talking?
A:  No, I didn't hear.  They didn't ask me anything because they couldn't 
see me.  We didn't see anything.  My daughter pulled me back when I 
stood up and looked outside.  My daughter told me, "Leave it in the fire 
Pa, let the house burn in the fire".  I couldn't do anything.  Nobody dared

to look, everybody stayed in the bunker.  We didn't sleep, we just sat 
quietly and listened.  We waited until all the houses had burned down and 
then we got out of the bunker, we looked around and we didn't see 
anything.  I looked at the sky and I saw the stars.  It was already almost 
morning.  At that time the fire had already been put out.  The section 
leader came to find out how many houses were burned down, he wrote it 
down in his notebook and went back.
His daughter:  We got out when the people were warming themselves 
near the embers of the burned houses.

Q:  How long have you been staying here in Maw Ker?
A:  I've been around here for 14 years, since before the refugee camp.  
First we left our village and stayed in Thay Baw Boe [just across the 
border in Burma].  In those days there was no problem.
___________________________________________________________________________
                                #M11.
NAME:    "Saw Bway"     SEX: M   AGE: 25     Sgaw Karen
FAMILY:  Married, children                   INTERVIEWED: 23/3/98 
ADDRESS: Dooplaya District; now in Section 6 of Maw Ker refugee camp

["Saw Bway"'s house was near the Burmese monastery and was burned in 
the attack.]

On the 23rd at midnight or one o'clock, SPDC and DKBA came to the 
camp, they fired big weapons and small guns and they burned houses.  
They burned Section 6 and part of Section 7.  They burned more than 40 
houses.  40 families are homeless.  I saw some of them [the soldiers] 
wearing civilian clothes.  When we ran we couldn't carry our things 
because they fired their weapons.  If they hadn't fired we could have saved

our things.

Q:  Did they shoot the monastery or did they set it on fire?
A:  They shot, paung-paung-paung [imitating the noise of mortar shells].  
I ran to the bunker and I called my family and my children to hide in the 
bunker.

Q:  Do you think that the DKBA would shoot the monastery deliberately?
A:  I can't tell.  If they were DKBA they should have had yellow scarves, 
but we didn't see any scarves on their heads.  We could see their faces 
because of the fire.  Maybe they put their scarves in their bags, we don't 
know.  But the soldiers were shouting against each other, because I heard 
one saying in Karen, "Don't shoot, don't shoot, why are you firing your 
guns, it is very strange that you are firing your guns!"  Only a few
soldiers 
came.  If many came they'd have no security and they'd suffer more 
casualties [because the Thai soldiers would know they're coming].

[Another refugee from Section 6, who was on duty as a sentry that night, 
added:]   That night at ten, we saw some strangers and we didn't know 
exactly who they were.  Some people said that they were hunters.  Later I 
saw four soldiers going to section 7 and four to section 3.   I also saw
some 
soldiers staying behind the monastery [they never entered further into the 
camp].  One sentry who was staying under a tree got wounded.  After the 
attack we saw a 2 1/2-inch [mortar] shell and RPG shells left on the 
ground, but when the Thai soldiers came they took them.  I think that those

soldiers won't dare to come and attack again because they were drunk and 
looked like they were afraid.  They burned the [Burmese] monastery and a 
hall [just in front of the monastery].  They came one  way and they went 
back the same way.
__________________________________________________________________________
                                #M12.
NAME:    "Saw Eh Kler"    SEX: M   AGE: 23     Karen student
FAMILY:  Single, 3 brothers and sisters        INTERVIEWED: 28/3/98 
ADDRESS: Dooplaya District; now in Section 1 of Maw Ker refugee 
         camp for 5 or 6 years

["Saw Eh Kler" is the youngest of 4 siblings and just finished high school 
in the refugee camp.  His father is dead and his mother lives elsewhere.]

Q:  Can you tell me what happened that night and when it happened?
A:  I am from Section 1, but that night I went to visit my friend in
Section 
3.  He said, "Don't go back, it is too dark, sleep here."  So I slept
there.  I 
was already asleep when I first heard the explosion.  I looked at my watch 
and it was 1:15 a.m.  When I heard the explosion I jumped down out of the 
house.  I hid under the house, and then I walked to Section 1.  They
started 
to fire heavy weapons, after that they fired rifle grenades [special
grenades 
that mount on the end of a rifle like an M1 carbine], small mortars and 
other bullets.  Then the shooting stopped and I walked to Section 6.  I 
reached Section 6 when the houses were burning.  One man told me, 
"Nephew, they left already, they came just for a while."  I asked him, "Did

you see many soldiers?" He answered, "I don't know, the soldiers came in 
two groups.  One group of soldiers came to see me and the other group 
went along the road."  The soldiers spoke Karen.  They asked him, "Where 
are the Muslims' houses?" and he said, "They are very far from here."  
That group of soldiers was followed by the Burmese.  The Burmese were 
behind them, while it was mostly the DKBA going in front.  

The man said that when they entered they started firing the big weapons, 
one group called "Go on, go on, go on" in Karen, and the other group 
called "Go on, go on, go on" in Burmese.  One group asked for a lighter 
from the others.  The other group said, "Don't burn, don't burn", but the 
first group said, "Burn, burn!"  Then one soldier asked his friend for a 
lighter and his friend said, "I have no lighter".  So he asked one from 
another friend, and he set fire to the houses.  That was about 15 minutes 

after they'd started shooting.

The first group was running in front and the second group was running and 
setting fire [to the houses] at the same time.  Another group was staying 
behind the monastery - they were Burmese.  Each of the first two groups 
had 4 people.  They burned the houses, they moved back and then they left 
the camp.  That man told me, "I really saw it.  They came and they burned 
my house.  I put out the fire and they set the fire again, and I put it out

again.  Then they searched me and they asked, 'Uncle, do you have any 
money?'  I told them I have no money and they said, 'If you don't have 
money then run, run!'"  They burned his house after he had run away.  
When I saw him he was sitting near the fire.

Later a lot of Thai military cars came.  The Thai soldiers came and talked 
to a man from Section 7 who was near me - his name is M---.  They asked 
him, "Which way did they come from?" M--- answered, " They came from 
that way".  The [Karen] sentries had seen and heard them and they had 
shouted.  The Thai soldiers didn't say anything, and they were worried that

the people would think that they do not provide any security.  While that 
was happening, the Thai soldiers went in a line near the grave and shelled 
four times with big weapons.  Then later the Thai soldiers who were in a 
line near the road shelled again.  They fired across the river at Wah Lay. 

That was before sunrise.  They fired again and again until five in the 
morning, and the people in the camp ran away because they were worried 
that the SPDC and the DKBA would shoot back.

Q:  Did the Thai soldiers do sentry duty to protect people before that 
night?
A:  No, they didn't do anything.  Sometimes they provide security but not 
regularly.  That night we had only villagers as sentries and they were 
holding nothing but slingshots, so they dared not shoot.  From looking at 
their behaviour, I think the Thai, the Burmese and the DKBA have joined 
hands and are working together.

Q:  Yesterday when the Thai authorities came and made a meeting, what 
did they say?
A:  I think that they wanted to know the population of the camp, how 
many Christians, Muslims and Buddhists are in the population and how 
many people can speak Thai.  And they asked about the helicopter crash.  
The Thai official asked, "Did you ever see that helicopter?"  The villagers

answered, "Yes, we saw it."  And they asked, "Did you see the place where 
it crashed?" We answered, "We didn't see."  Then they showed money, 
15,000 Baht, and they said, "If you find the pieces of the helicopter, we 
will give you this money".  That was a Thai helicopter that crashed in the 
rainy season of 1997.  We didn't see it crash, but we saw it flying that
day.  
I didn't hear it crash but I heard the SPDC shooting at it.  [A Thai Army 
helicopter patrolling the border crashed in rainy season 1997, probably 
shot down by SLORC troops.  SLORC refused the Thai request to send a 
team to search for the wreckage until several weeks later, and then would 
only allow them to search one specific location.  No wreckage was found.] 

Q:  If someone tells you that you have to go back to Burma, what will you 
do?
A:  Why would I go back?  If we go to stay in Burma we must be slaves of 
the Burmese.  I would rather go and be a KNLA soldier and shoot at them.  
That would be better for me.  

                       - [END OF REPORT] -