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Re to New Dictator on the net (r)

At 07:34 AM 10/10/97, you wrote:
>Are you a new generation of BSPP and SLORC?
>>From mmc@xxxxxxxx Thu Oct  9 20:36:12 1997
>>Received: from [] (m197.maui.net [])
>>          by maui.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA01838
>>          for <nyeinchan@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:36:01 -1000 
>>Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 17:36:01 -1000 (HST)
>>X-Sender: mmc@xxxxxxxx
>>Message-Id: <v01530502b062c6b8df40@[]>
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>To: nyeinchan@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>From: nyeinchan@xxxxxxxxxxx (by way of mmc@xxxxxxxx (robert campen))
>>Subject: Ko Aung Kyaw and Ko Zar Ni  POINTING OUT ABOUT ABSDF AND     
>>Please e-mail him direct! None of this babble should be on the 
>Burmanet. OK?
>>Dear Ko Aung Kyaw and Ko Zar Ni,
>>                 Sorry for my late reply and for replying in a message
>>for both.  First of all, what is the definition of blackmail Ko Aung
>>Kyaw?  Many newspapers and many news agencies quote reliable sources
>>without saying their identifications.  For example, when ABSDF sends 
>>internal information on the net, it doesn't mention the sources because
>>of the security reason.  Everyone understand that.  According to your
>>standard and definition, all seem like involving in blackmail.  When 
>>say the news will not be reliable without saying the source exactly, do
>>you think about those factors too.  I can't provide security for them
>>and so I can't tell their names.  You will not even think to provide 
>>security.  When ABSDF and all news groups sending out information under
>>that circumfrence, that doesn't mean blackmail at all.  Please make 
>>you know what you are saying.  I feel cold in my backbone when asked to
>>identify the source.   I am afraid of their security if I don't keep
>>secret.   Blackmail is defined that when someone is asking a demand in
>>return for not disclosing information about something.   I take
>>responsibility over what I sent.  I can prove and I have sufficient
>>documents.  However, you have the right to say that those are wrong or
>>right.  You didn't say anything that whether those were right or wrong.
>>If you think you are sure those are wrong, you can post it on net and I
>>will prove.   I am writing with my penname and so are you.   Well, 
>>whether your accusation is meanful or not.   I am just wondering that
>>accusing sending blackmail is a new means to stop others' opinion?  Spy
>>and then, blackmail!  You hid your position in the guise of a supporter
>>only and you were not sincere when you wrote the message.   Why 
>>you present ABSDF response as a representative of it?
>>              First, I have to tell you that, I know what effects could
>>happen when I posted ABSDF internal informations.   I will tell you my
>>intention under this. No reason should be an execuse to withhold
>>information.   Moreover, I know that those will hurt our images (not
>>only ABSDF but also all).  However, when you keep quiet, those become
>>parasites and will jeopardise the whole struggle.  BSPP shew only good
>>images of it to the people and never expressed its weakness to the
>>people honestly.   When the people learnt about those weakness, all
>>things were in bad shapes.  We as revolutionaries, should be sincere 
>>open to the public.  So that all can get the whole picture to examine
>>and to help.  You have asked Radio Free Asia to stop broadcasting about
>>the execution too.  Please stop practicising that suppresive acts as
>>BSPP did and SLORC does.  Those are not good to copy though.
>>               I sent out those informations with the following
>>intention.   To compare and examine the past situation and present
>>situation.  To make all aware that we have weakness and that we need a
>>change.  Moreover, could you find any word that I criticize ABSDF?  I
>>didn't criticize and I just pointed out the points and urged to mend
>>those.   You didn't read the message well.   In our struggle, you know,
>>I know and everyone knows that we have weakness but we never talked and
>>discuss about and never find out how to mend them.  Never seek help 
>>others too.  Moreover, we seem much reluctant to accept that we have
>>weakness.  It is pretty late and we must talk and discuss about those
>>weakness in order to find remendies.
>>               Look! We have weakness and we need to identify those.  I
>>alone can't identify them and I am sure there are so many things I 
>>know.  To increase participation and to draw participation from all
>>people from Burma and all supporters, I sent those.  My only intention
>>is want to see the proper leadership and direction.   Everybody's
>>suggestions are needed to seek and everybody's opinion are valuable to
>>include in the consideration (for your leaders' consideration).   After
>>identifying the problems, we and all come up with solutions and options
>>to approach the weakness.   You alone, I alone and the leaders' alone
>>can't solve the problem since those are the problems of all.   That is
>>what I have intended.
>>           When pointing out some weakness, it is our task.  All
>>people's task.  Do you know what Daw Lay Aung San Suu Kyi said?  "We
>>shouldn't blame only on BSPP for what had happened in the country
>>because it was part of our fault that we didn't point them out as we
>>needed to."   When seeing a weakness, if you really love the struggle
>>and if you really love ABSDF, you must point out it so that it can see
>>its weakness and it can learn to change.  As Daw Lay Aung San Suu Kyi
>>said, it is our task and all people's task.  I won't stop it.  Pointing
>>out and presenting my suggestion is task and you can take it if you 
>>and if you and ABSDF and the groups don't want those, you can just
>>ignore it.   Accepting criticism is a practical way to see our real
>>image.  I don't criticise yet except once to NCGUB.
>>             This is the time to discuss about the weakness and find 
>>the solutions through dialogue.  If people ivolve in discussion, it is
>>good even if it can't be creative.  The more the people think and
>>involve, the better their brain power is and the more they become
>>productive.   That is my will.  I want to advise you that please read 
>>previous message throughly and interpret it.  You will see, I just
>>suggesting and urging ABSDF.
>>               When we live in a place where we can exercise democracy,
>>we should practicise democratic norms and means.  I know there are so
>>many difficulties on the border.  However, as the revolutionaries to
>>replace suppressive regime, no reason should be an excuse to violate 
>>rights and no reason should overwhelm to stop exercising of the real
>>democratic means.  Unless we practise in our real lives, there is no
>>meaning in our revolution.  As I told you, expression of my suggestion
>>is my right and you have the right to ignore.  However, accusing
>>groundless is ridiculous and unacceptable for the democratic society.
>>     Ko Zar Ni,
>>                  As a Burmese and as a person who still value our own
>>culture, I can still distinguish the gender by looking at the name.  In
>>Burmese culture, no one I have ever seen use Mr, Ms, Mrs, Madame.  I
>>wish living in USA didn't make you forget your own Burmese culture.  I
>>don't mind being called Ko or U or Daw or Ma.
>>                   Importantly, does FBC list belong to you and is it
>>your personal list?   Doesn't it accept expression of opinion on it?   
>>know the history.  Please think the reason why it was created.   If it
>>is your personal list and it doesn't accept expression of ideas and
>>opinion for the attempt to free Burma, please reply to me publically so
>>that everyone can know it is your personal list and it doesn't accept
>>expression of opinions.    Don't hesitate to reply.
>>                 I know you are trying to raise awareness about Burma.
>>Please give the clear whole picture of the situation and it will help
>>all of us in practical way.  When all know the whole picture, they can
>>come up with suggestions and practical assistance.   It will not be
>>honest to show the portion of the picture.  I know that you and Dr.
>>Naign Aung has close conection but that shouldn't be an issue to stop
>>expression and pointing out the weakness dutifully.
>>                  When saying about negative effects, it is easy way to
>>force someone to stop expression.  What do the negative effects mean 
>>what can be the long term effect for withholding information?   I have
>>to go to work and I must stop here.
>>               The more weakness I see, the clearer I know that I need
>>to stay in the second country where I don't want to.  The longer we 
>>to mend the weakness, the more we ignore the suffering of the people.
>>We should learn from past experiences and all should have access to
>>learn those weakness too.
>>Nyein Chan
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Banning of news in the INTERNET is a serious crime.          By U Thaung

Dear Friends,

I want to know all about what have happened  and what is  happening in the
Burmese democracy movements on the whole, so that I can  make judgement to
support the group or activities.  Even I like to know for my knowledge.

My thirst was satisfied when the information highway of the INTERNET was
paved. I enjoy reading all sorts of pros and cons of many organizations and
movements.  I think I am in haven compare with my life under Burmese
military rule. 

Deplorably,  I read that a clique of Burmese democracy leaders does not like
to hear captious view on them and issued an order to ban the criticizer from
their board.  Following is order issued by the Free-Burma list and  support
by their their associates----

Dear Maung/Ma/U/Daw/Ko/Mr./Mrs./Ms/ Mssr./Madame Nyein Chan:

"Friendly manner of criticism is much more effective and acceptable 
rather than posting your criticism on the net or which ever way in 
public -leading to provoke negative result- if those of who really wants 
to see inporvement in those organiztions."  --Aung Kyaw

I think Ko Aung Kyaw has a point when he responded your verbal "criticisms"
of anything that moves.

If you want to play this self-appointed critic or gadfly against those who
are involved in the movement for democracy in Burma, you have the right to
do so.

As the owner of the Free-Burma list, I however, request that you respect my
right to ask you to stop sending your crappy emails to the following address:


Advance thanks.



U Nyein Chan,

As a recent participant in the movement to free Burma, it was imperative
for me to come to the defence of Ko Zar Ni.

I've been quietly reading all the email battles happening and now I just
usually end up deleting these mails.  Engaging in such actions do not help
at all with the movement to free Burma, but just creates an atmosphere of
ego battles and "mental masturbation".

I absolutely support Ko Zar Ni's decision to hinder these pestering emails
in reaching the FBC list server.  Quite frankly, I don't want to read
solution-less emails that have no point but inflating the ego's of persons
hoping to gain recognition by them.  No recognition nor respect will there
be for this nonsense.  

Let's hear solutions and answers, not criticism of the brothers and sisters
involved in the movement.  Those involved in the movement MOVE...they don't

fellow burmese,

    \\\/   _    _   \/// 
     \\  -|_|--|_|- //
      |      ()     |
      \  (\______/) /
       \           /
     Ali Ahmed
     (562) 869-9681

Dear Nyein Chan,

I am asking you politely, both through the bumranet and directly to your
hotmail account, to please:

1. set up your own server list or 
2. write directly to the people you are concerned with about this ongoing
hysterical attack against the organisations of your choice.

I hope you will pay attention to this request, since it is much shorter than
the lengthy tirades you have been subjecting Burmanet subscribers to.

I have been automatically deleting anything posted by
<nyeinchan@xxxxxxxxxxx>, which is a little sad, because you may have been
posting useful information in between your personal battles with other

Thank you for your kind attention.

Debbie Stothard

A L T S E A N - B U R M A
*tel: [662] 275 1811/693 4515 *fax: [662] 693 4515 *e-mail: altsean@xxxxxxxxxx

Dear friends,
Please permit me to express my view. I think it is totally wrong to close
your eyes and eyes of your subscribers. Banning news and commentary is work
of fascists who want to hide their sins. If  your deeds are sincere, you
need not be too afraid of blaming you. Readers can think who is right and
what is wrong.
I understand that, this conflict started  after discovery of  certain
sensitive leader who had even committed crime and who had tortured his
comrades that opposed his views.

I am afraid, if this kind of comments is made in the lawless boarder area
today, the critic might be condemned to death again.  It is easy to repeat
old mistakes, if they are not  exposed and denounced.

I am  seriously worried to see these democracy leaders to win the battle and
rule the country because they might be worst than the SLORC.  Their concept
of freedom of speech is  to praise them only. They refused opinion of the
people. Even in the most freed institute of the celestial globe- the
INTERNET, they are trying to suppress information they do not want to hear.
I am gravely afraid now.

I do regard that  to ban information  is same sin as  killing  of dissents.

Since 1958, The Burmese military had tried to take political power by
suppression of freedom. Newspapers had been closed and confiscated.  Many
journalists, writers and politicians were imprisoned to seal their opinions.
As a result, the military generals win the war and ruled us with intention
of governing forever.
People and leaders inside Burma are fighting the military dictators
defiantly, and it seems that the people are winning the crusade.   

In contrast to the movements in native Burma,  a clique of politician,
wearing masks as democracy fighters abroad are trying to cover their crimes
by suppression of news, even in the INTERNET.

Dear fiends, please think of the situation. I am deeply sorry to witness
this devastation of truth.
U Thaung