The BurmaNet News August 26, 1997

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"Appropriate Information Technologies, Practical Strategies"     
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The BurmaNet News: August 26, 1997        
Issue #805

HEADLINES:        
========== 
RANGOON RADIO: RESIGNATION OF NLD MP U BA NYEIN 
KYODO: TOKYO REJECTS REFUGEE APPLICATIONS BY 17
THE NATION: GO ASK SLORC HOW LONG THEY CAN STAND
THE NATION: NLD AWAITS DIALOGUE
KNU: PRESS RELEASE NO.49-51/97
KNPP: HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS AND BATTLE UPDATE
NATION: GENERAL SEES SUU KYI PLOY TO GET GREEN CARD
THE NATION: TOP SCHOLARS SUPPORT CHANGE IN ASEAN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

RANGOON RADIO MYANMAR: COMMISSION ACCEPTS RESIGNATION OF NLD MP U BA NYEIN 
August 20, 1997 [translated from Burmese]

U Ba Nyein of the National League for Democracy [NLD], an elected
member of the People's Assembly in Banmauk Township Constituency, Sagaing
Division during the Multiparty Democratic General Elections, citing old age
and poor health, has submitted his resignation of his own volition to
withdraw as elected representative.
The Multiparty Democratic General Election Commission has accepted his
resignation effective today in accordance with Section 11, Subsection E of
the People's Assembly Election Law.

***************************************

KYODO: TOKYO REJECTS REFUGEE APPLICATIONS BY 17 BURMA ACTIVISTS 
August 21, 1997

Tokyo, Aug. 21 Kyodo -- A Myanmar [Burma] democracy activist, named by the
junta as a suspect in April's parcel bomb attack at the home of a
senior junta official, on Thursday denied the allegations and renewed his
call for Japan to grant him and his fellow activists refugee status.
"It is very likely that I will get the death penalty if I were to go
back," Thomas Gon Aung told a news conference.  "My friends and family
could also get jail terms."
In 1994, Japan's justice ministry rejected Gon Aung's application for
refugee status.  Gon Aung, 36, who has been in Japan since 1989, now awaits
a reply on the objections he filed with the ministry against the 1994
decision.
On Thursday, Gon Aung tried to file a new application seeking refugee
status but was rejected, his lawyer Shogo Watanabe said.
Sixteen other Myanmar activists also sought to file fresh applications
Thursday but were also rejected, Watanabe said.
The justice ministry has rejected these Myanmar nationals' requests
for refugee status, citing procedural matters that they did not file
applications within 60 days of their arrival in Japan.
Watanabe said the junta's naming in June of Gon Aung as a suspect puts
his client in greater danger than before.
Junta-controlled newspapers have printed Gon Aung's name and picture,
calling him a suspect in the bomb attack that killed Lt. Gen. Tin Oo's
daughter April 6, Watanabe said.
Gon Aung said his brother in Myanmar was taken into custody shortly
after he was named a suspect of the bombing.
He said no Myanmar democracy activists based in Japan sent the bomb
parcel, adding that the activists will face harsh punishment if they are
sent back.
Shortly after the parcel bomb attack, the Myanmar junta said they
suspect the parcel was sent by antigovernment groups stationed in Japan
because it bore a Tokyo postmark.

****************************************

THE NATION: 'GO ASK SLORC HOW LONG THEY CAN STAND THE STRAIN'
August 25, 1997
Andreas Harsono

RANGOON -An American Burma watcher once said that Kyi Maung, 79, the vice
chairman of the National League for Democracy, is the man most responsible
for leading the NLD to its overwhelming victory in the election in May 1990
while other NLD leaders were in detention.

An elderly figure who cannot hide his fondness for good humour and
philosophy, Kyi Maung is widely considered to be one of the most prominent
members of the 10-strong NLD Central Executive Committee which includes
chairman U Aung Shwe, Vice Chairman U Tin Oo, Secretary-General Aung San Suu
Kyi and treasurer U Lwin.

At the outbreak of World War II, young Kyi Maung joined the Burma
Independence Army and later rose to the rank of colonel. But he was forced
into retirement while serving as the commander of the Southwestern Command
after opposing the military takeover of 1962.

"His pension is very small. It's only 1,000 kyats," said wife Daw Kyi Kyi
who offered part of their house for rent to a South Korean family to support
the family. One American dollar at the market rate is currently worth about
230 kyat.

Kyi Maung, a veteran politician who was repeatedly imprisoned by successive
Burmese military rulers for a total of about 12 years since his forced
retirement in 1963, gave an exclusive interview to The Nation at his house
in a lane off Kaba Aye Pagoda Road in Rangoon on Aug 14. Below are excerpts
from the interview.  

Has the July meeting between NLD chairman U Aung Shwe and SLORC First
Secretary Gen Khin Nyunt produced some results?

I think it was a step forward. They have never talked to us like that day.
It was very cordial. We considered the talk very significant. It came from
Khin Nyunt.

Will further talks include Aung San Suu Kyi?

We have told them that in future talks if they decide that they should be
meaningful - they cannot keep her out of the scene. Their perception of her
is completely mistaken - that she is obstinate, strong headed. It is not
true. She is quite reasonable.

But the Slorc said Suu Kyi has repeatedly outmaneouvered the other members
of the Central Executive Committee of NLD?

It is not true. You could invite them to sit in our meeting while we are
having discussions. No, she is committed to going along with the opinion of
the majority. 

They said in some cases the committee had agreed on something but she
suddenly changed the decisions?

No, no, not at all. I cannot recall such a situation. If she does, I for
one, would walk out of the committee. When we walked out of the National
Convention in November 1995, they presumed that she was the instigator. Not
at all. She did not utter one word. Check it with Tin Oo. She did not even
utter one word.

What happened?

She was new to the National Convention. She was released in July. Problems
had already arisen inside the National Convention. So U Aung Shwe said the
situation was unworkable there. It was conducted like a meeting to present
seminar papers. They were comedies. We could not be there. We really wanted
to discuss all of these [issues] but we were never allowed to present our
agenda. They accused her of being behind us.

What about Burma's membership in Asean?

If the NLD had become the government in 1990, we would have really wooed
Asean to receive us.

Our objection to it was that Asean should delay Burma's membership under
such an unaccountable government. They are an illegitimate government. We
wanted them to be accountable. This government does not recognise the
popular vote. On principle, we are not against Burma joining Asean. The only
thing we are asking is to have its membership delayed until after there is a
dialogue within the country. That is the reason behind it.

As for trade sanctions, we do not want Burma getting poorer. We want the
democratic world to put pressure on them, ask them for democratic change.
That was the idea behind it. Now that Burma-has became a member of Asean, we
have to recognise the facts and the reality. And we do. It is now up to
Asean to persuade them.

But how do you perceive the undemocratic nature of some Asean countries like
Indonesia for instance? What I'm trying to say is that the Slorc is not
alone in Asean. It has Indonesia as a model.

But Indonesia even has relatively a free press which allows its people's
voice to be heard. But here? Don't only take Slorc's nine years in
existence. You have to add 26 years of military rule in this country.
[Slorc] is the continuation of the Ne Win regime [since 1962].

But they say they are different from Ne Win. Under Ne Win the economy was
really bad. Now the economy is open. You can see flights coming into Rangoon
everyday. Cars and new buildings are on the streets?

No, no, it is worse now. The price of petrol has been raised seven times,
720 per cent last month. I had my own experience. I sent out my boy to buy
two bottles of ink. It costs me 300 kyat for the two. I use fountain pens.

How much was it, let's say? five years ago? If it was available then, maybe
within the range of 20 kyat.

The Slorc is suggesting that the military could have 26 per cent of the
seats, permanent seats, in the future parliament in Burma just as the
Indonesian generals have?   I don't think it is going to take place in this
country because of the ethnic minorities. We hear, maybe wrongly, but we
hear that the ethnic minorities would fight because 25 per cent of the seats
would be applied in their areas too. The Kachins, the Chins are suspicious
that the Burmese would grow stronger.

How could we solve the stalemate in Burma?

The problem here is not very difficult compared to South Africa's Nelson
Mandela and F W de Klerk. The situation here is very simple if you get to
the root of this. When Slorc took power in 1988, in the aftermath of
demonstrations which they suppressed violently, they said, "Alright, we're
going to have polls." Then they set up the date, one-and a-half years away.

But the problem was that once the election was held and the party that won
the majority was not theirs, they said we should draft the constitution
first. They refused to hand over power. They established the National
Convention only in 1992.

But then in the name of an open market economy they contacted foreign
businessmen. They became richer and richer. They started to talk about
keeping power. You can't compare this sort of scenario with the Indonesian
scenario. There you have [Indonesian communist leader] D N Aidit who tried
to stage a coup. I went to school in America with Gen Ahmad Yani. He was a
close friend. Yani [Indonesian army chief in 1965] was killed during the
coup and Suharto came to power. It is a different scenario. Here they are
not keeping their original promises. These promises are their
problem.

You were arrested and harassed. You spent 12 years behind bars-seven during
the Ne Win regime and another five under SLORC. Do you think you and your
colleagues have the stamina to go on? Have you ever been tortured? 

No, no, not on old person like me. But by the same question, you can ask
Abel [Brig Gen David Oliver Abel, minister for National Planning and
Economic Development] whether he could stand the stress? How long can he
survive under the strain and the peace pressure? [giggling] Thailand is
different. It could find someone who would come up with US$15 billion. Burma
has great difficulty getting US$100 million. 
     
In Indonesia I was told President Suharto has what is called the Berkeley
Mafia who advise him and work out the economy. But here? Abel? 

***********************************************

THE NATION: NLD AWAITS DIALOGUE
August 25, 1997

The Burmese opposition is growing increasingly confident the military
government will seek talks soon, the Nation's Andreas Harsono and Yindee
Laertcharoenchok report.

The residence of U Tin Oo is located in the elite Golden Valley area in
Rangoon and the Burmese dissident was still listening to an English language
foreign radio service. He had the volume set high as if to taunt the
military intelligence officers who frequently inspect his house.

"In Burma, listening to foreign radio stations is a rare phenomenon. People
are afraid. They don't talk about politics in public. They could end up in
jail even by mentioning the names of some opposition figures.

"Everybody wishes to talk. But the day will come. It is not far away,"
smiled the square-faced and bespectacled Tin Oo, a retired army general and
currently the vice-chairman of the opposition National League for Democracy
whose secretary-general is 1991 Nobel Peace laureate Aung San Suu Kyi.

Clad in light blue longyi, white collarless shirt and grey Burmese jacket,
Tin Oo hinted that the time is now appropriate for the ruling State Law and
Order Restoration Council (Slorc) to have talks with the NLD.

"They [Slorc] once said they are not going to talk with Khun Sa. The next
day they drank tea together," said Tin Oo, referring to the infamous drug
lord who in January last year surrendered himself to the Slorc and who has
since claimed to have washed his hand off illicit heroin trade in the Golden
Triangle area and now live quietly in a 6 mansion in Rangoon.

Tin Oo is not alone in thinking so. Scores of Asean diplomats in Rangoon and
prominent Burmese figures believed that both the Slorc and NLD are now
interested in opening a dialogue in a bid to resolve Burmese political
stalemate since Slorc's refusal to hand over power to NLD after winning the
1990 general election. 
     
Many believed if Burma could find a solution, it would not only benefit the
Burmese people who had suffered from brutal military rule since 1962, but
also contribute to stability in Southeast Asia.
     
"Thailand, at least, will have no refugees on its western border," said an
Asian diplomat.

Poerwanto Lenggono, the Indonesian ambassador to Burma, said the Slorc had
taken steps to open a dialogue with NLD after the country's membership in
Asean was confirmed in the Asean ministerial meeting in Kuala Lumpur last
month. 

He said since then both sides of the Burmese divide are restraining
themselves and appear to "soften" their political stance.

Poerwanto said the situation is now relatively "peaceful" although the
University Avenue remains closed where people are barred from going to Suu
Kyi's residence on that famous street where the NLD had held public
gatherings every weekend since her release in July 1995 until they were
stopped late last year by the Slorc.

To many exiled dissidents and foreign diplomats, the unexpected meeting on
July 17 between Slorc Secretary Lieutenant General Khin Nyunt and NLD
Chairman U Aung Shwe was actually the beginning of a bilateral Slorc-NLD
dialogue.

Although some critics believed the meeting was organised purely for
"international consumption" in a move to avert any possible last-minute
hurdle to Burma's admission into Asean, several Burmese activists -
including an exiled NLD MP in Bangkok - were ready to give the Slorc the
benefit of the doubt.

Despite an obvious lack of any essential substance, the latter hoped that
the "cordial discussions" as the Slorc put it would lead to more talks
between the two Burmese political antagonists. 

Khin Nyunt, also chief of the notorious Directorate for Military
Intelligence Services, reportedly told Aung Shwe that he would like to have
further dialogue, but the NLD leader also clearly notified that further
talks should include Suu Kyi. "We're not going to have dialogue without
her," Aung Shwe reportedly said.

Poerwanto said over the last three months, NLD has not made any new
overtures especially after the Slorc had accused it of involvement in the
fatal parcel bomb attack in April that killed the eldest daughter of Slorc
Secretary Number Two Lieutenant General Tin 00.  
     
He doubted whether Suu Kyi, who is a strong supporter of non-violence
movement, could have order such a move, adding that the 52-year-old NLD
leader had perhaps expected Asean to ask the Slorc to be "a good boy" after
becoming an Asean member.

Some critics said that Slorc decision to have the talks was because the
generals are facing difficulties in running the country under strong
international pressure. The military junta cannot keep the prices of basic
needs under control, prompting criticism of the military regime.

Burmese journalist Sein Win, however, has another explanation. He believed
that Suu Kyi is "lying low" after Khin Nyunt's serious allegations in June
that she and the NLD had received over US$80,000 from American organisations.

Under the Burmese law, it is illegal for any political party to receive
financial support from foreign countries.

When asked whether Burma could get out of the current political stalemate,
Sein Win, who worked for the then privately-run New Light of Burma before it
was nationalised in 1965, said it might happen after the constitution is
passed. But as to when this will happen, nobody knows. The National
Convention had stopped convening after NLD pulled out of the
constitution-making body in November 1995.

Sein Win said- after the passing of the constitution, SLORC promised to hold
a general election but want to exclude Suu Kyi because she is married to a
foreigner.

Burma's laws ban politicians married to foreigners from involvement in
parliamentary or governmental affairs. Suu Kyi, who is married to British
scholar Dr Michael Aris, however, has repeatedly said she would not seek
political power.

Some Burmese businessmen also doubted whether people like Tin Oo and Suu Kyi
could govern Burma "because they have no military sup port." It is next to
impossible that Suu Kyi, however popular she is, be in power as long as the
army does not support her.

"Power comes from the barrel of the gun," said a Chinese noodle manufacturer.

When asked whether the Slorc and NLD needs an international mediator like
South African Nelson Mandela who is now working on East Timor, Tin Oo said
the situation in Burma and East Timor is different.

According to him, Burma does not need a mediator although he admitted that a
number of Nobel laureates including Mandela and South African Bishop Desmond
Tutu had already offered help.

"No, we can solve the problem ourselves," said the former chief of staff of
the Burmese Army.

He also said that scores of old veteran officers had organised a meeting to
help mediate the Slorc-NLD conflict, adding that these old soldiers - who
helped General Aung San, Suu Kyi's father, to fight against the British
colonial ruler and liberate Burma - want to see democracy and good
governance restored in Burma before they die.

Tin Oo explained that bilateral talks should be conducted on equal grounds
"in a dignified way on the pattern of democratic principle."

He also urge Asean representatives to Rangoon to talk with NLD.

****************************************************

KNU: PRESS RELEASE NO.49-51/97

OFFICE OF THE SUPREME HEADQUARTERS
	      KAREN NATIONAL UNION
		       KAWTHOOLEI

PRESS RELEASE NO.49/97 - ATROCITIES BY SLORC 
Regarding 1997 SLORC Offensive against KNU
August 23,1997                       

Kaw-ka-reik District

* 09-8-97 A Sergeant from enemy LIB 549 shot up the audience of a 
video show at Aw-kaw village killing Ma Than Htay 23(F, 6-month 
pregnant) and Nyang Hlaing 13 (M) and wounding Maung Saw Oo 11(M).

Pa-pun District

* 24-7-97: Troops from enemy LIB (439) shot up the village of Maw-law 
village wounding villager Saw Tu Lu 32.
* 29-7-97: Troops from enemy LIB(709) indiscriminately shot at the 
villagers of Thway-doe village, wounding a villager. The troops stayed at
the village for a day shooting all the chickens and pigs found and ate them.

Toungoo District 

* 24-7-97: Troops, led by Tint Lwin Oo, from enemy IB 55 came to Ber-gor-doe
and ate as well as destroyed the villager's live-stock and food supply. They
seized all women in Kee-pla-doe and Cor-say-ko villages, including young
girls and nursing mothers, and forced them to carry supplies to Koe-mor-doe
village on 27-7-97. When in Koe-mor-doe, the troops forced all of them to
stay in the village church building and desecrate the church by forcing them
relieve themselves in it, making all the villagers feel very distressed. 
* 29-7-97: Troops from the same IB 55 came to Dek-ko village and 
looted 2 gold chains, 3 rings, a pair of earrings and 2000 Kyat from 
villager Naw Koo Lu and valuables from other villagers also.

Nyaung-le-bin District:

*In Pyu township, troops from enemy LIB (439) charged the people 500 
Kyat, per person, for a permit to work in their fields and farms.
* From 7-7-97 to 1-8-97, in Kyauk-kyi township, troops from enemy IB (60)
and LIB (351) seized 20 women and forced the people to ransom them at the
rate of 600 Kyat per person. Ma-lad-daw villagers were forced to relocate in
Tha-beay-neant and then they charged the villagers 10 Kyat per person per
day, for returning and looking after their plantations and orchards.

-----------------------------------

PRESS RELEASE NO.50/97 - ATROCITIES BY SLORC 
Regarding 1997 SLORC Offensive against KNU
August 24, 997

Kaw-ka-reik Township                                August 24.1997

* 20-7-97: Accusing Mae-ka-lat villager Saw Chay Heh, 25, of being an
insurgent, troops from enemy LID 356 arrested him and demanded that he 
hand over his weapon. When he could not produce any weapon, the troops took
him to Lay-tha-ray cliff and booted him down to his death from the cliff top.
* 13-7-97: Sixty two Nayung-ta-ko and Naung -ta-marn villagers arrived at
the border village of Pan-klang of Um-phang township in flight from their
villages, when they could no longer bear the atrocities of killing, rape,
forced labor and extortion perpetrated by enemy LIBs 545, 546, 547, 648,
549, 355, 356, 357 and IBs 31, 61, 106, 231 & etc, in their area.
* 16-7-97: For the same reasons mentioned above, 72 Win-lon villagers
arrived at a place near Pan-Klang. At one point during their flight, they
were fired on by the enemy troops and, as a result, some of the villagers
were found missing.

Toungoo District

* 05-8-97: A military column from enemy LIB 539 came to Ka-shee-kee-doe
village and arrested the village head, Saw Ywa Hseh Moo Ler. The troops
executed him after prolonged torture.
* 8-8-97: A military column from enemy LIB 706 rounded up all the  villagers
it could find in Play-hsa-lo, Yu-lo,Plaw-baw-doe, Lay-kay-lo, Por-part & etc
and took them to Ba-ya-na-the village on 11-8-97. Again on 14-8-97, LIB 706
brought in 120 more villagers, including the young and adults, from those
villages.
* 09-8-97: Troops from LIB 701 seized 90 villagers, including women 
and children from Baw-ga-leet and Gor-theh-doe villages and forced 
them to carry supplies to Bu-hsa-kee village, on 10-8-97.

---------------------------------------------------

PRESS RELEASE NO. 51/97 - ATROCITIES BY SLORC
Regarding SLORC 1997 Offensive against KNU
August 25, 1997

Tavoy-Mergui District

* 17-7-1997: A military column led by Captain Myint Shwe from enemy 
LIB 208 came to Pa-nweh-po-klo village and burnt down the village Christian
church. On 25-7-97, the column arrested Pay-cha villagers Saw Kway Poe, Saw
Tun Hla and Saw Par Er and then executed them without reason. It killed and
ate 3 of the villagers' cattle. Again, on 26-7-97, the column came to
Pay-cha and burnt down 5 houses and pandal.
* 25-7-97: Enemy troops came to Ga-zer-der village and burnt down the 
village Christian church and house.
* 11-8-97: Troops led by their officer, Nay Myo Thu, from enemy IB 
280 ransacked Maw-thaw-kwa village. In addition to looting all the 
villagers' valuables, the troops looted the villagers' food supply as well.
* 12-8-97: Again, the same troops came to East Port-taw village and 
ransacked every house in the village.
* 12-8-97: A military column led by 2nd in Command, Khin Maung Win, 
from the enemy IB 280 arrested and executed Ler-der-poo villager Saw 
Bla Day 27. Again, on 13-8-97, the column arrested and executed 
Hseet-ku villagers Saw Ko Sher 52, Saw Ba Nee 26, Saw Pee Ler 18, Saw 
Ba Shwe 34 and Saw Wah Ler 34, without reason.

(Translated and printed by the Karen Information Center and 
distributed by the CCT)

*****************************************

KNPP: HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS AND BATTLE UPDATE
August 25, 1997

THE GOVERNMENT OF KARENNI
MINISTRY OF PUBLIC RELATIONS AND INFORMATION

25 August 1997

Report
HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION COMMITTED BY SLORC

On 24 August 1997, Slorc troops of LIB 102 under the command of Aung Myo Min
(unknown position) burnt down 28 houses of Kaw Moo De village of No. (2)
District in Karenni. 

On 25 August 1997, Slorc troops of LIB 426 under the command of Lt.  Major
Soe Nwe, commander and Major Win Soe, second commander, burnt down 16 houses
of Ywe Beh village and destroyed 35 acres of planted rice paddy.
_______________

Battle News in No. (2) District area

On 24 August 1997, the Karenni Army attacked Slorc troops of LIB 102 under
the command of Aung Myo Min (unknown position), while the Slorc troops were
burning the buildings of Kaw Moo De village. One Slorc soldier was wounded.
Casualty of Karenni troops was nil.
In the same day the Karenni Army attacked Slorc troops of Battalion No. 531
under unknown commander that taking position between Mawchi and Pa Saung
town. One Slorc soldier was seriously wounded. Casualty of Karenni troops
was nil.  

**********************************************

NATION: GENERAL SEES SUU KYI PLOY TO GET GREEN CARD
August 25, 1997

RANGOON - A leading member of the Burmese military junta charged that
Burmese opposition leader and 1991 Nobel Peace Prize laureate Aung San Suu
Kyi, who is under semi-house arrest and not permitted to speak to reporters,
is working for the interests of the United States and is seeking a green
card in order to become an American citizen.

Brig Gen David Oliver Abel, 62, minister for National Planning and Economic
Development of the State Law and Order Restoration Council (Slorc), made the
allegations in an exclusive interview with The Nation at the Prime Minister
and Ministers' Office on Thein Byu Road in downtown Rangoon.

The red brick, colonial-style building is where Gen Aung San, Burma's most
famous national hero and the father of Suu Kyi, was assassinated in 1947.

"The room is locked now. We use it for prayer," said Abel, who is of German
and Shan descent and widely considered to be one of the smartest generals in
the inner circle of the Slorc's so called "soft-liners". 

There's a lot of speculation here that the Slorc and NLD will have another
round of talks to find a solution to the question of Burmese democracy. Can
you confirm that?

I cannot confirm that, but Gen Khin Nyunt had a talk with the NLD in July.
The talk was about the situation in the country and political objectives. We
called them and invited them. There are some lights. You can see some
lights. But I would not like to elaborate further on it.

How bright are the lights?"

Well, if you have a dialogue and a talk, it's two-way. If you are receptive,
I think it's worth talking with you. But if you close your door, that is
another scenario. I think they are also quite satisfied with the talks. They
opened their door. We also talked about another talk in the future.

How has your new membership in Asean influenced this?

You know the policy of Asean is one of non-interference in the internal
affairs of another country. Of course, in the spirit of Asean brotherhood,
in a spirit of goodwill they would like to see peace and tranquility in this
country, and political stability and everything. But you don't interfere.

But didn't Asean call on the Slorc in Hong Kong [during the Hong Kong
handover ceremony] to have a dialogue with NLD?

It was not a call. Really! What they said in Hong Kong was sort of "it would
be a good idea if the government could have a talk with the NLD." Still the
National Convention is the best dialogue we are having. It represents
everybody. They [NLD] have their representatives in the National Convention.

President Suharto recently agreed that South African statesman Nelson
Mandela could help mediate the problem of the internationally-disputed East
Timor. Do you think Burma needs an international mediator?

There you are talking about [East Timorese] people.

Here we are talking about the whole country. It is different.

I think the UN Charter is quite clear. The sovereignty of a country should
not be violated. Nobody should interfere with the sovereignty of a country.
We don't meddle in anybody's affairs. We don't like anybody to meddle in our
affairs, as well. I think that is quite clear. I think the National
Convention is a very capable body for deciding the future of our country.

People also say the Slorc is interested in learning from the Indonesian
constitution, etc. Would you briefly say in what field, how and to what
extent that your government is interested in Indonesia?

We look at many constitutions. We studied the Indonesian constitution. We
have studied the Indonesian miracle and also the South Korean miracle. We
have also studied the miracle of the NICs [New Industrialised Countries].
[There are] many good things that we can learn. We can learn many good
things in these studies, especially from Indonesia, because the state of
Indonesia was created under revolution.

Before, they were under Dutch colonialism and created a free Indonesia. We
fought against the colonialists also to establish Myanmar. These are two
very similar situations. I think on that base we can learn a lot from each
other. We paid a lot and heavily for what we have achieved, similar to
Indonesia. That freedom was fought with life and blood. With that objective
and inspiration we look at Indonesia as a model.

Burma was the first Asian country which recognised Indonesian independence
in 1946. Many Indonesian people think they owe Burma for its independence.

Yes! We gave Indonesia a lot of support. Radio Free Indonesia was broadcast
from Myanmar. Garuda Airlines, the first aircraft, was born in Myanmar. We
still have the Garuda 001 here [at a Rangoon museum]. We supported the
revolutionary movement in Indonesia, although we ourselves just gained our
independence. We were not well off but for the freedom of the people of
Indonesia we sacrificed on our side. I mean this in the spirit of brotherhood.

Now, what about Indonesian NGOs who say they have to help Aung San Suu Kyi
in return?

Well, we cannot tell them, "You don't have to say it." We cannot tell them,
"You don't have to feel it." But how much? How many?

Many people abroad admire Aung San Suu Kyi. But your newspaper, the New
Light on Myanmar, looks down on her and even uses abusive words to attack
her personally. Tell me what do you and your colleagues think of her?

She might be a smart person. But I also sort of fear that her allegiance is
not to our country. Her allegiance is to another country. She does not care
anything about Myanmar. You know she asked for sanctions. When US President
Bill Clinton signed the sanctions, she said, "This is the best thing that
the President ever did." Things like that.

When the Karen National Union had a meeting on the border they made a
declaration - and she said she supported the declaration.

That's insurgency! She [talks about] human rights and democracy, but she
doesn't know what is happening. But she's always anti-government - I would
say anti-Myanmar even.

Isn't this really because of your government's male chauvinism?

Rubbish! How can that be? I tell you she is married to a foreigner.
According to our law, she cannot be elected. You cannot be a
parliamentarian. You cannot be a head of state.

You cannot be anything since you are married to a foreigner. Because you are
a wife of a foreigner, you are a dependent of a foreigner, so you cannot be
[a head of state]. It's the same thing in Thailand.

Let me tell you one thing. Intelligence is one thing. You can be the most
intelligent person in the world. But if you are not patriotic then you are
useless.

Based on my visit here I know that Aung San Suu Kyi is very popular.

Very popular? People think so. But she is using her position, her present
situation, to obtain a green card from America. That's why you read Gen Khin
Nyunt's statement recently on her receiving foreign aid. That's quite clear.

But what about the other NLD Central Executive Committee members? The NLD is
not only Aung San Suu Kyi. It is a political party that won the general
election.

Without Aung San Suu Kyi what would you say the NLD would be? If Suu Kyi
only represented the NLD, and she was not here, what do you think would happen?

I'm not an expert on Burma. And I have no pretensions of being
one.

Okay! If she is not here, the rest of the leaders, the Central Executive
Committee, cannot make decisions on their own. Unanimous decisions are not
respected; [decisions are] always made alone, by her. The Central Executive
Committee is 10 people. Out of 10 people, nine people can make a decision
and she rejects it. Will you say that party is a democratic party? Nine
people make decisions and they are rejected.

In what cases? 

You have to find out for yourself.      

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THE NATION: TOP SCHOLARS SUPPORT CHANGE IN ASEAN ENGAGEMENT POLICY
August 25,1997
Malee Traisawasdichai

LEADING international academics urged the Association of Southeast Asian
Nations (Asean) to take the initiative in pressuring Burma's military junta
to participate in dialogue with its people and dissident groups, adding that
the organisation is discriminatory in the way it has dealt with political
conflicts in Cambodia and Burma.
	They also called on Asean to take up a "constructive intervention" policy
and redefine its "consensus" principle to come to terms with the economic
and political gaps rising from the expansion of the grouping- consisting of
democratic and socialist, legitimate and illegitimate, as well as
economically advanced and less advanced countries.
	In the international conference entitled: "Constructive Engagement in Asia:
Political and Economic Dimension", which ended on Friday, Josef Silverstein,
a professor at Rutgers University in the United States, questioned Asean's
policy in choosing to treat Burma and Cambodia differently.
	He said.. "it is true that Asean has an obligation concerning Cambodia to
fulfil the 1991 Paris Peace Accord in regards to the right of
self-determination, but the grouping should have the same obligation towards
its new member, Burma whose people have suffered brutal human rights abuses
by the ruling military junta and are struggling to achieve democracy.
	"In Burma, 43 million people are either prisoners or captive. This is a
country under a military dictatorship and still torn by civil war. This is a
reality on the verge of the 21st century. It is the people's attempts to
have their own government," Silverstein said.
	"Cambodia has the right of self-determination, but I don't see why the
Burmese people can't have that," he said.
	Burma became an Asean member in July while the grouping postponed the
admission of Cambodia, following a coup by the country's strongman Hun Sen,
who ousted the first prime minister Prince Norodom Ranariddh.
	Kavi Chongkitthavorn, from The Nation, however, pointed out that Asean's
differing stance towards handling Burma and Cambodia is motivated by
different political and strategic reasons.
	"Asean's policy on Burma is Asean against the West [to counter its
promotion of human rights]. But for Cambodia, Asean has to be involved
because China has moved quickly. So by not having China in Cambodia, other
countries have stayed engaged," Kavi said.
	Debbie Stothard, a representative of a non-governmental organisation on
Burma, said that Asean, though having a nature of promoting dialogue, has
failed to do so in the case of the State of Law and Order Restoration
Council (Slorc).
	"The Slorc said it doesn't need dialogue, not just with the people, but
with Asean also. When Asean officials raises questions with the Slorc, it
says, 'Don't ask too many questions'. So we have [Asean] embassies so scared
that they will not to talk with the Slorc, let alone with Aung San Suu Kyi,"
Stothard said.
	"With Burma becoming a member, Asean should pressure Slorc to begin a
dialogue, she said.
	Dr Amitay Archarya, from the Joint Centre for Asia-Pacific Studies at York
University in Canada, said that "constructive intervention", with its
"proactive" element, would be more appropriate than the current constructive
engagement policy -Asean uses to deal with conflicts in the region.
	Archarya said there are at least two examples of Asean's constructive
intervention in the past. During the time when communism was its biggest
threat, Asean helped the Philippines government suffuse a Muslim rebellion.
In the 1970s, Thailand also allowed Malaysia's army to cross its border to
fight communist insurgents in the southern region, he said. 
     	"Today we do not have the same situation. But there is a precedent
[for constructive intervention]. The reality of all this is the ambiguity in
the whole Asean way," Archarya said.
	Archarya also pointed out that the question of Burma, and the future
membership for Cambodia, will make Asean's consensus principle suffer.
	"The question of Burma is a problem because people don't think it is a
legitimate government, yet nobody [in Asean] wants to question its political
legitimacy.
	But Asean has to redefine the consensus principle, for example, whether it
wants to go back to a majority vote," Archarya said.
	However, Carlyle A Thayer, head of the School of Politics at Australian
Defence Force Academy in Canberra, remains optimistic about Asean's
"constructive engagement". Within Asean activities, Slorc will be engaged in
various meetings and hopefully dialogue will be promoted, he said.
	"We should have a little hope [for Slorc], as it somehow can change. To
isolate Burma, like isolating Vietnam during the cold war, does not work,"
Thayer said.
	Meanwhile, Chumbhon Lertrachakarn, from Thailand's National Security
Council, defended Asean's policy on Burma, saying that the country is a
product of British colonialism. Unlike Cambodia's Paris peace treaty, Asean
has no treaty to pursue in Burma's case.
	"People forget about how Burma has come to be the way it is today....
except for treaties giving Burmese independence from British colonialism,
there is no treaty for Asean to pursue," Chumbhon said.
	But Silverstein argued: "Burma has a colonial past, but it has contributed
highly towards the education of the people and having some outstanding
economists, whom have been driven from the country by the military dictatorship.
	"These are the same people who failed with socialism and capitalism. Why
hasn't Burma exported rice this year? Why have they resorted to forced
labour? I believe Asean has to ask itself these questions," Silverstein said.

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